Reducing the number of abortions

To solve world problems

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mrmufin
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Reducing the number of abortions

Post #1

Post by mrmufin »

Otseng has mentioned this topic a few times, and I think it's worthy of discussion:

How can the number of abortions be lowered?

Remember, folks: this forum is for discussion toward a common objective, not for debate on the issue of abortion...

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mrmufin
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Post #61

Post by Furrowed Brow »

Buckeye wrote:I don't understand what the problem with abortion is. Why would I want to compel someone to give birth to a child that they obviously don't want. Common sense tells me that the child will be neglected at best, just look around, this world is full of miscreant juveniles from uncaring parents that were too stupid to not get pregnant in the first place.
There was a philosopher who suggested something similar. From memory I think it was Peter Singer. Following the line of reasoning you suggest he concluded it would also be moral to "abort" a six month old baby.

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Greatest I Am
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Abortion

Post #62

Post by Greatest I Am »

In all fairness to all.
If we controlled our sexuality better then the abortion problem would disappear.
I know that this is a simplistic comment but it is too true.

The real question is how can we train ourselves to a better sexual lifestyle?
How do we elevate the status of the unborn fetus?

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DL

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Post #63

Post by Buckeye »

Furrowed Brow wrote:There was a philosopher who suggested something similar. From memory I think it was Peter Singer. Following the line of reasoning you suggest he concluded it would also be moral to "abort" a six month old baby.
How's about we abort the mother and keep the baby?

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Post #64

Post by Furrowed Brow »

Buckeye wrote:
Furrowed Brow wrote:There was a philosopher who suggested something similar. From memory I think it was Peter Singer. Following the line of reasoning you suggest he concluded it would also be moral to "abort" a six month old baby.
How's about we abort the mother and keep the baby?
Sometimes in my worst moments, when I see really bad examples of parenting I'm sympathetic to that view. But fathers too.

I usually find myself living in or near pretty rough areas. It beggars belief but I have on more than one occasion heard some "mother" with young child (toddler) call her child with venom a "C..NT!" These are also the kind of mothers who if you remonstrate with them will try and scratch you eyes out.

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Post #65

Post by k-nug »

I have not read all seven pages but would like to input.

Abortion, being the divisive issue that it is, will take both sides ignoring their extreme elements. Both sides must be willing to compromise. Religious beliefs must be set aside. Feminist beliefs must be set aside. Impossible, Maybe not. Likely? No.

As a libertarian, I am pro-people-not-having-abortions-when-at-all-possible. I believe that sexual education is the key. Good parenting is the key. However as a cab driver, I see the problems of young mothers trying to raise children, especially in the 'ghettos'. This may sound cold and callous to the right, but under-educated poverty-stricken children should not be having babies. Would I rather a 15 yr old child have an abortion rather than bring it to term only to condemn it's existence to the system, or to the streets? Yes. Don't get me wrong, they should not be having sex either. But realistically, how can you stop it? It IS going to happen. Especially with those living in poverty, many of whom don't even finish high school. How can you educate them on sexuality when you can't educate them in math or science?

The solution won't be pretty, and I sure don't have one. But, offering free condoms, and free birth control is a step in the right direction. I realize this may be an affront to Christians, noting that catholic clergy seem to be up in arms every time I hear of it, but if the ultimate goal is to reduce the number of abortions, it seems like a logical, albeit band-aid, solution to a tricky problem. Whether abortion is legal or not is irrelevant. Christians seem to be trying to legislate every moral issue of our time, although Jesus never once practiced law. Legislation did not stop people from drinking alcohol, it does not stop people from smoking pot, nor will it stop people from having sex leading to abortions. It will just go underground like drugs. Statistics will go down, but only because of back room abortions or people crossing borders.(NIMBY anyone?)

Along with free condoms, and birth control, must come a real push to educate today's youth on the positives and negatives of sex. not PRE-MARITAL sex, but sex in general. It can't just be in the classroom either. I slept through health class, as did most people I know because we thought we already knew everything about sex from the schoolyard. We must not be afraid to be wholly honest about sex, it's dangers and the reason it exists in the first place, leaving religion out of it. Most kids will already know by the time they enter sexual health class that sex is cool, some of them already having experienced it and sharing the experience with their friends. The school (and parents lest we forget who ultimately has responsibility for the kids in school) need to fill in the blanks and give out ALL the information so that kids are making informed choices instead of going on what little they know because parents are going the head in the sand route or outright outlawing sex and all talk of it in the home.

Sorry for the rant.
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Post #66

Post by AClockWorkOrange »

There needs to be a complete stop on the discouragement of The Morning After Pill.

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Post #67

Post by Cryopyre »

Being 15 I've been in many a sex-ed class and it is rediculous. The option of abstinence needs to be presented, but we take it to the extreme in a way that makes me feel that they are not looking out for our safety, just preserving our innocence, and I know a lot of other kids feel that way too.

What really needs to be done is highlight the effectiveness of contraceptives, instead of focusing on their weaknesses, which is what current classes do, we should focus on the effectiveness of condoms, IUDs and the like.

Currently condoms and other contraceptives are only taught to the class as a potential failure, that may be true, but they don't tell us that the failure occurs only 1 in 10,000.

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Reduce them from not wanting the Child.

Post #68

Post by ken1burton »

The best way to deal with lowering the Abortion rate is to show what is being removed from their lives.

Those who have little ones around the House know the Love they bring into our lives is far greater then any personal reasons to be selfish of our time and resources. We know of one to one relationship which has never been shown on television.

Most people need to be needed. And there is nothing like a small Child or Baby to give meaning to a person’s life, As needing to be there for one of them.

People need to want the Children, For the Child to be more precious then our own interests. Dads need to want to be dads.

When was the last time you saw someone trying to help the pain of teething? As the child needs to bite down, and your finger is the best thing at the moment.

Or a small child clutching your hand to themselves, Or handing you the blanket and Bottle so they can be in bed with you. Then wants to play horsey.

Our Television programs has pushed Children to the Back room, Like the old, Be seen but not heard. People want to see Sports, Comedy, Murder and things destroyed. But not see the love of a Child.

The Movie Bambi did a lot of Damage to the deer hunting population. Lots of people never went deer hunting after seeing that Movie.

Also we could tell Women, or young ladies a little Scripture. That God opens the Womb. There is plenty of Scripture to support it. So if any find they are pregnant. They can always tell anyone who has a problem with that to take it up with God. Scripture also shows God is able to prevent a man from taking a woman.

So if God gives a young troubled girl love, with 10 tiny fingers, and 10 tiny toes, Who really can say it is wrong?

The Child needs to not only, not be aborted, They need to come into a world that has love for them. They already have love for us.

Ken

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Post #69

Post by AClockWorkOrange »

The best way to deal with lowering the Abortion rate is to show what is being removed from their lives.

yes, the best way to sway anyone is indeed to emotionally manipulate them. i agree.

Those who have little ones around the House know the Love they bring into our lives is far greater then any personal reasons to be selfish of our time and resources.
it is especially fun when you have no means to support the child adequetly, so they become a burden while they grow upt o resent you for not providing enough. Drink. Punch. Cry.

Most people need to be needed. And there is nothing like a small Child or Baby to give meaning to a person’s life, As needing to be there for one of them.
then get a pet, not a kid! If someone has to find meaning in their life from an OUTSIDE SOURCE then that meaning is pretty shallow. Happiness come from within.
People need to want the Children, For the Child to be more precious then our own interests. Dads need to want to be dads.
and if they dont, they shouldnt have them. you cannot brainwash people into being nurturing. that is how you get abusive parents.


Our Television programs has pushed Children to the Back room, Like the old, Be seen but not heard. People want to see Sports, Comedy, Murder and things destroyed. But not see the love of a Child.

The Movie Bambi did a lot of Damage to the deer hunting population. Lots of people never went deer hunting after seeing that Movie.
this seems kind of wierd. of course negative imagery shows creates negative thoughts. Have you ever stopped to wonder what the world would look like if every aborted kid was born? I'll give you a hint: Every City would look like Hong Kong, then we can look forward to good old depletion of resource and starvation. fun on a bun.
Also we could tell Women, or young ladies a little Scripture. That God opens the Womb. There is plenty of Scripture to support it.
there is also plenty of scripture supporting unicorns. that would only really sway about 30% of the world.
So if any find they are pregnant. They can always tell anyone who has a problem with that to take it up with God.
Nice! Mean, vindictive AND flipant!
You sir are a master.
Scripture also shows God is able to prevent a man from taking a woman.
what does that even mean? was that a wierd allusion to erectile dysfunction?
Becuase, like a baby, that can be cured with a pill.
So if God gives a young troubled girl love, with 10 tiny fingers, and 10 tiny toes, Who really can say it is wrong?
Child services, or the young lady who has to pass that kid.
The Child needs to not only, not be aborted, They need to come into a world that has love for them. They already have love for us.
that is poignant and for the latter part, true.

BUT, it comes down to this. An unborne child is the biological property of the mother. If she wishes to not have that kid, for whatever reasons (and frankly in my opinion whatever means) then that is her perogitive. You dont have to agree.
You can make your own personal choices regarding your body. You, however,have no right to govern other people lives. Niether You or a JUST AND MORAL GOVERNMENT can decide whether someone else has a kid or not. That is not yours to command. Maybe when we understand that no one has the right to dominate others, then maybe we can begin to move toward peace.
The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the
world ugly and bad.


Friedrich Nietzsche

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Post #70

Post by ken1burton »

AClockWorkOrange.

Emotional manipulate? Now that is something that is different. I suggest you do not watch any television ads. And ads at all for that matter. Put blinders on when going out in public. Etc. Emotional manipulation has to be the thing most people deal with hundreds of times a day. Surely we can not use it to help saved people from aborting their children.

I did not think the issue here was overpopulation. But to deal with one thing, To reduce the number of Abortions. We are not going to put the whole world on hold and just deal with reducing Abortions, all the other things in this world have to be dealt with also.

The Focus is reduced Abortions, And you do not seem to care about reducing them at all. So when heads are put together to deal with this, What is your head doing here? The name of this thread is not “Come see what smart remarks AclockWorkOrange can make.”

If any were to walk into a nursery and kill a Baby laying there, The World would scream (you excluded). But doing that five minutes earlier seems to be alright and a woman’s right.

Regardless of that issue, a person has to live with what they do. And allowing your own child to be put to death is not something that will not be remembered. But it is something that you can not go back and change.

Almost everyone has little events they wish they could go back and change. Some very irrelevant. But they seem to never stop bothering a person. They just wish they had never done it. What would you want someone to go through life with a burden of guilt like that which will be quite a burden for a lot of women.

Usually the day comes when the excuses or good reasons fail, and reality comes. And they no longer think or a it, or that, or tissue, But a Child that they could have had live, But chose death for them.

If they were to get a pet and not a kid, They would find out they have a pet which is not a young Goat. What has this to do with Children?

As far as Brainwashing, A lot of people need a good brainwashing. For their minds and thoughts are useless to themselves and others around them. For responsibility does not dwell in such brains, all that is there is “Me, Me, Me.”

Depletion of resources? I hope that does not mean you have to live with less? Keyword was “Live.” which was not their option.

“Nice!, Mean, Vindictive, AND flipant!” No problem, You see, Such Attributes come with being alive. They do not call aborted Children those names. We really do not know what they would grow up to be called, Do we?

I am not a Master, But I know One.

When you live in Alaska, you need to keep your head covered, Frostbite you know!

A Baby can be “CURED” with a pill? Is that what you call a cure for a Baby? And you use words like Mean and Vindictive to others?

You might not know it but there are a lot of loving people at Child Services who really try to help these children live a decent life. Have the things they need, See they are cared for. Many of them just see a Baby, Not how they go to be on earth.

I did not get into any legality. Nor right or wrong. But more of the harm done to the woman who goes through it. Killing the earthly life of the Child does not end the life of the Child, They are with God, and well taken care of. Heaven may well be like Hong Kong, Lots of babies running around.

As far as Biological Property? That might be the reason God gives them back when the Mother arrives there. And just a side note. Any miscarriages are also there waiting, from the moment of conception, a child lives. If they die that day, Momma does not know someone is waiting for her.

One Woman asked me if she should have an abortion, I told here that was a choice she would have to make herself, But what ever the choice was. Only the earthly life can be aborted, and that if she did abort the Child, God would give her the Child back for the same reason He gave it to her in the First place, Because He loves her.

And I know Christianity’s values has lead to a lot of Hidden pregnancies which lead to abortions to avoid what they felt would be the shame. Although Christianity has not owned up to this.

Ken



PS
There is Scripture to support a Unicorn. There is not Scripture to support a Unicorn being a horse with a horn in the center of their forehead, Is there? The object is not to know what is written in the Bible, But what it means.

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