Another Shooting

To solve world problems

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Armed Citizen
Site Supporter
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:21 pm
Location: Midwest Jupiter

Another Shooting

Post #1

Post by Armed Citizen »

As tragic, as this is in my humble lil opinion, I am sure some will be usin it as another reason ta be politicizin the debate.

This is merely another of them examples provin that if someone wants ta break laws, they will. Most cops were a type of tactical holster that makes grabbin their gun purty hard ta do. Yet, here we have a guy who managed ta do get a gun and hurt some of our police force.


I happen ta be wonderin' how many of ya anti-gun fans are thinkin that now might be a good time ta take guns from cops. I mean, iffin they didn't have so many guns around them there police stations this wouldn't have happened right?


Questions:

Does this promote anti-gun arguments?

Does it promote "nation of violence arguments"?

Does it promote accidents happen?

How do you view this here tragedy?


Thanks.


:2gun:
:2gun: :usa: Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
- George Washington :2gun: :usa:
Image

User avatar
LiamOS
Site Supporter
Posts: 3645
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:52 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Another Shooting

Post #2

Post by LiamOS »

[color=red]Armed Citizen[/color] wrote:This is merely another of them examples provin that if someone wants ta break laws, they will. Most cops were a type of tactical holster that makes grabbin their gun purty hard ta do. Yet, here we have a guy who managed ta do get a gun and hurt some of our police force.

I happen ta be wonderin' how many of ya anti-gun fans are thinkin that now might be a good time ta take guns from cops. I mean, iffin they didn't have so many guns around them there police stations this wouldn't have happened right?
Ignoring your rhetoric, it actually would seem to work, in a naive view. In Ireland, we do not have an armed police force, and we have anywhere between half to a third of the gun homicides that the U.S. does(per capita). Stats taken from:
Ireland
U.S.

Even worse than that is that the U.S. has almost four times the total number of homicides Ireland does(per capita). I guess taking guns away from police officers makes a big difference after all. :-k


However, if you're going to take something from this post, I think the following says it all. Under the above links, go to Gun Death and Injury -> Number of Unintentional Gun Deaths for both Ireland and the U.S.
Notice that the difference is about fourteen times(per capita). That's impressive, isn't it? And this is in a country not long out of a lot of internal violence.

Now, in Ireland we do have regional units who have access to assault weaponry and such, but these are more like SWAT teams than police officers.



Obviously though, guns are simply not as necessary for our Gardaí, because we have very few people in Ireland with guns... Isn't it impressive how heavily gun ownership correlates with gun violence, and particularly accidental gun violence? Why is 'less guns' not a solution to gun violence?

Gun rant aside, I believe that unarmed police would make this sort of thing less likely.
If this man wanted to kill a load of policemen, he could get a gun and do it. If it was spur of the moment in there, there's plenty of opportunities to acquire a gun as it stands.

Darias
Guru
Posts: 2017
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Another Shooting

Post #3

Post by Darias »

LiamOS wrote:
[color=red]Armed Citizen[/color] wrote:This is merely another of them examples provin that if someone wants ta break laws, they will. Most cops were a type of tactical holster that makes grabbin their gun purty hard ta do. Yet, here we have a guy who managed ta do get a gun and hurt some of our police force.

I happen ta be wonderin' how many of ya anti-gun fans are thinkin that now might be a good time ta take guns from cops. I mean, iffin they didn't have so many guns around them there police stations this wouldn't have happened right?
Ignoring your rhetoric, it actually would seem to work, in a naive view. In Ireland, we do not have an armed police force, and we have anywhere between half to a third of the gun homicides that the U.S. does(per capita). Stats taken from:
Ireland
U.S.

Even worse than that is that the U.S. has almost four times the total number of homicides Ireland does(per capita). I guess taking guns away from police officers makes a big difference after all. :-k


However, if you're going to take something from this post, I think the following says it all. Under the above links, go to Gun Death and Injury -> Number of Unintentional Gun Deaths for both Ireland and the U.S.
Notice that the difference is about fourteen times(per capita). That's impressive, isn't it? And this is in a country not long out of a lot of internal violence.

Now, in Ireland we do have regional units who have access to assault weaponry and such, but these are more like SWAT teams than police officers.



Obviously though, guns are simply not as necessary for our Gardaí, because we have very few people in Ireland with guns... Isn't it impressive how heavily gun ownership correlates with gun violence, and particularly accidental gun violence? Why is 'less guns' not a solution to gun violence?

Gun rant aside, I believe that unarmed police would make this sort of thing less likely.
If this man wanted to kill a load of policemen, he could get a gun and do it. If it was spur of the moment in there, there's plenty of opportunities to acquire a gun as it stands.
In this most recent shooting, 3 officers were hurt because one cop didn't have his weapon secure. But the only reason 3 officers were hurt instead of many cops murdered is because someone who was armed returned fire and killed the suspect. The only way to stop a madman with a gun is with a law abiding person with a gun.

And then there are cases where suspects are not properly searched. This man shot himself in a police station. The gun was his own, and if none of the cops had been armed, he could have easily shot up far more than 3 people.

The UK has gun bans and their police are also unarmed. They don't even have tasers, probably because some people have died from tasers. In any case the police have no teeth to enforce the law apart from a bat.

Neither the underfunded and underarmed police, nor the defenseless British could protect themselves and their property during the England riots of 2011.

I returned from London days before this happened. Places I visited burned to the ground. My friend called me and said she was locked in her home terrified if someone might break in or set fire to her neighborhood. Guns, knives, and pepper-spray are illegal in the UK. She had no means to defend herself. Neither did the shop-owners. Places I visited were smoldering.

Contrast this with Korean shop owners during the 1992 race riots. They were armed to the teeth, they shot bullets (not at rioters) to deter thugs and to protect themselves and their property in the absence of police.

In the UK gun violence went up from 1999 to 2009 by 89%. I wonder why? Is it because police and citizen alike have 0 means to defend themselves from criminals with guns?

England also has one of the worst crime rates in first world countries, worse than the United States. Home burglaries and rape. Hmmm... I wonder if citizens having no guns plays a part in this invitation for crime.

China also has defenseless police. Even though China has the strictest gun control laws in the world, mainly because they don't support democracy and want to control their people, gun crime is still a big problem. This is because China manufactures a lot of weapons, and criminals get their guns by stealing them or making them. One criminal pulled a home-made gun on some Chinese cops in 2008.

Mexico has gun control laws and drug laws. Knives and guns are illegal for citizens to own. Police themselves have a very hard time qualifying for weapons. Meanwhile, drug cartels are on a rampage, executing busloads of people... decapitating them. The police are neutered and the people are sheep for the slaughter, but the criminals still get their hands on weapons. Who knew criminals could get weapons illegally? Who knew that laws aren't very effective in reducing the number of guns... who knew that citizens would surely be disarmed but criminals could still get weapons?

Gun laws only make sure that everyone who obeys and enforces the law have no means to defend themselves or others. Criminals couldn't care less about gun laws and will always have easy access to guns whether gun laws are in place or not -- especially in countries with a lot of guns and a strong gun culture. In places where guns are scarce, like in China, criminals will either steal them or make their own.

Despite Ireland's so-called success in reducing gun crime. Apparently criminals find it easier to get guns than to order pizza. Who knew, criminals could break the law?




Meanwhile gun crime goes up, and lately burglary has soared.



_

Post Reply