An appeal to our political leaders regarding Egypt massacres

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TG123
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An appeal to our political leaders regarding Egypt massacres

Post #1

Post by TG123 »

Hello everyone,

I hope my post is in the right part of the forum, I am new here so if it should be in another section please move it where it should be.

I strongly encourage and appeal to every member of this forum to join me in condemning the mass murders perpetrated against the Egyptian military junta against the supporters of Morsi.

While I believe it is evident that Morsi's government, though democratically elected, overwhelmingly lost the support of the Egyptian people due to st**id policies and repressions of its own (though they were not nearly as deadly as what is happening now), this does not excuse the murders of his supporters.

I have written a letter to my government and am petitioning them to cut off all military aid and diplomatic support to Egypt while its army is murdering its citizens with impunity.

I also strongly encourage and call on every other Canadian, American and European on this forum, as well as a member of any other nation whose government has ties to the current regime, to do the same. Feel free to copy and paste my letter or to make changes to it, or to write your own. Please encourage others to write letters also.

Pray also for an end to the violence in Egypt and work for justice.

God bless you.

TG123

Copy of letter I sent to my Prime Minister regarding the situation in Egypt
Dear Prime Minister Stephen Harper,

As a Canadian citizen and fellow Christian who is following the news in Egypt, I am appalled by the mass murders of Egyptian protesters by the military.

As you are probably aware, over 60 unarmed Egyptian demonstrators were murdered by the army this Saturday. They were peacefully demonstrating in favour of the ousted president, when they were mercilessly gunned down.

I am no supporter of Mohammed Morsi, he was elected democratically but due to his policies he lost the support of the majority of his people.

However, it is inexcusable that his supporters were murdered in cold blood.

I call on you as the leader of our democratic nation, to cut all ties with the Egyptian military while they are in power and are continuing to oppress their opponents. Any military, diplomatic or political support Canada gives to the current government in Egypt should be rescinded while these atrocities are taking place.

As a democratic nation, we should take a clear stance against these human rights abuses. As a Christian, I also urge you to remember that our faith calls on us to hunger and thirst for justice.

We need to show the junta that Canada does not support its spilling of innocent blood.

Sincerely,

my name
my address
my postal code
my email

Stephen Harper can be contacted here: Contact the Prime Minister - Prime Minister of Canada

Barack Obama can be contacted here: Contact the White House | The White House

David Cameron can be contacted here: https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...downing-street

I am not sure about contact info for leaders of other nations, hopefully their emails and addresses can be found online.

Please lift your voices also against this crime. Pray for the people of Egypt and follow Christ's call to hunger and thirst for justice.[/i]

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Divine Insight
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Re: An appeal to our political leaders regarding Egypt massa

Post #2

Post by Divine Insight »

TG123 wrote: Pray also for an end to the violence in Egypt and work for justice.

God bless you.

TG123
Didn't Jesus teach us to pray that God's will be done?

Why are you suggesting that we should tell God what to do?

Why not just Pray that God's will be done and let God decide if he wants to end the violence.

Maybe this violence in Egypt is part of God's plan? If you read through the Bible it seems like God uses violence in an attempt to solve all his problems with mankind. So why think that this is anything other than God's will?

God even had his own son brutally beaten and nailed to a pole to address the problem of salvation. So clearly God's methods are extremely violent.

I'm not about to tell God what to do in Egypt.

I'll just pray that God's will be done and let God decide how to handle it.

Didn't God create the Egyptians anyway?

Who am I to tell God how to deal with the objects of his own creation?

If you believe in the Biblical God aren't you supposed to TRUST that God knows what he's doing? ;)

I can never understand why Christians are always trying to tell God what to do.

It makes no sense to me.

Would you have petitioned God not to have his only begotten son butchered on a pole to pay for your sins?

If you disapprove of God's methods what are you going to do when you get to his heaven?

If you don't like the way he runs the Earth you're probably not going to like the way he runs heaven either.
[center]Image
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]

TG123
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Re: An appeal to our political leaders regarding Egypt massa

Post #3

Post by TG123 »

Divine Insight wrote:
TG123 wrote: Pray also for an end to the violence in Egypt and work for justice.

God bless you.

TG123
Didn't Jesus teach us to pray that God's will be done?

Why are you suggesting that we should tell God what to do?

Why not just Pray that God's will be done and let God decide if he wants to end the violence.

Maybe this violence in Egypt is part of God's plan? If you read through the Bible it seems like God uses violence in an attempt to solve all his problems with mankind. So why think that this is anything other than God's will?

God even had his own son brutally beaten and nailed to a pole to address the problem of salvation. So clearly God's methods are extremely violent.

I'm not about to tell God what to do in Egypt.

I'll just pray that God's will be done and let God decide how to handle it.

Didn't God create the Egyptians anyway?

Who am I to tell God how to deal with the objects of his own creation?

If you believe in the Biblical God aren't you supposed to TRUST that God knows what he's doing? ;)

I can never understand why Christians are always trying to tell God what to do.

It makes no sense to me.

Would you have petitioned God not to have his only begotten son butchered on a pole to pay for your sins?

If you disapprove of God's methods what are you going to do when you get to his heaven?

If you don't like the way he runs the Earth you're probably not going to like the way he runs heaven either.
Fine, then pray that His will be done. I assume He wants peace and justice in Egypt, but I could be wrong.

I do know that His will is for those who follow Him to hunger and thirst for justice, and I believe that what is happening in Egypt is unjust.


When you finish praying for God's will to be done (or before), please consider writing a letter to your political leader and advocate for him or her to do what s/he can to pressure the army to stop their murders.


Thanks and God bless.

Darias
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Re: An appeal to our political leaders regarding Egypt massa

Post #4

Post by Darias »

TG123 wrote:Hello everyone,

I hope my post is in the right part of the forum, I am new here so if it should be in another section please move it where it should be.

I strongly encourage and appeal to every member of this forum to join me in condemning the mass murders perpetrated against the Egyptian military junta against the supporters of Morsi.
I applaud your sentiments on this issue. Violence like this is always appalling and worth condemning.


TG123 wrote:While I believe it is evident that Morsi's government, though democratically elected, overwhelmingly lost the support of the Egyptian people due to st**id policies and repressions of its own (though they were not nearly as deadly as what is happening now), this does not excuse the murders of his supporters.
The method by which Morsi attained power does not legitimize his power in the least. Hitler's regime was also democratically elected. Democracy is by its very nature violent.
Benjamin Franklin wrote:Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
That said, his overthrow does not justify the slaughter of his supporters.


TG123 wrote:I have written a letter to my government and am petitioning them to cut off all military aid and diplomatic support to Egypt while its army is murdering its citizens with impunity.

I also strongly encourage and call on every other Canadian, American and European on this forum, as well as a member of any other nation whose government has ties to the current regime, to do the same. Feel free to copy and paste my letter or to make changes to it, or to write your own. Please encourage others to write letters also.

Pray also for an end to the violence in Egypt and work for justice.

God bless you.

[. . . .]

Please lift your voices also against this crime. Pray for the people of Egypt and follow Christ's call to hunger and thirst for justice.[/i]
I appreciate your compassion, however, this needs to be said. Petitioning governments is nothing more than beggary. Writing letters to these governments is like writing a letter to Hitler, begging him to do something to preserve the rights of Jews. Or alternatively, it is like praying to Poseidon, that he might stop the next hurricane. Beseeching authorities, earthly or heavenly, which neither the capacity nor the will to care is the vainest of all endeavors. We are utterly and completely powerless to save the victims of violence. States operate on national interest, not morality. States have mutually beneficial relationships with each other which supersede any appeals to morality or cries for justice. This is the reality.

The Egyptian military might not care. Obama might not care. God might not care. The good news is that condemning violence matters to you and to me. The best way we can do that is not only by bringing attention to this sort of thing, as to dismember the affinity people have for political campaigns that pretend to champion what's good for people, but to also to condemn violence in our own personal lives.

We teach our children that violence gets things done when we demand they respect our every command, lest they face corporeal punishment. We glorify democracy and governments when voting and states are inherently thieving, and violent. And we wonder why violence happens on the scale that it does in the world?

[center]Image[/center]

We don't have the power to do anything beyond maintaining peaceful relationships in our own lives and creating awareness about the undeniable immorality of violence initiated against others.

TG123
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Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:14 pm
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Re: An appeal to our political leaders regarding Egypt massa

Post #5

Post by TG123 »

Darias wrote:
TG123 wrote:Hello everyone,

I hope my post is in the right part of the forum, I am new here so if it should be in another section please move it where it should be.

I strongly encourage and appeal to every member of this forum to join me in condemning the mass murders perpetrated against the Egyptian military junta against the supporters of Morsi.
I applaud your sentiments on this issue. Violence like this is always appalling and worth condemning.


TG123 wrote:While I believe it is evident that Morsi's government, though democratically elected, overwhelmingly lost the support of the Egyptian people due to st**id policies and repressions of its own (though they were not nearly as deadly as what is happening now), this does not excuse the murders of his supporters.
The method by which Morsi attained power does not legitimize his power in the least. Hitler's regime was also democratically elected. Democracy is by its very nature violent.
Benjamin Franklin wrote:Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
That said, his overthrow does not justify the slaughter of his supporters.


TG123 wrote:I have written a letter to my government and am petitioning them to cut off all military aid and diplomatic support to Egypt while its army is murdering its citizens with impunity.

I also strongly encourage and call on every other Canadian, American and European on this forum, as well as a member of any other nation whose government has ties to the current regime, to do the same. Feel free to copy and paste my letter or to make changes to it, or to write your own. Please encourage others to write letters also.

Pray also for an end to the violence in Egypt and work for justice.

God bless you.

[. . . .]

Please lift your voices also against this crime. Pray for the people of Egypt and follow Christ's call to hunger and thirst for justice.[/i]
I appreciate your compassion, however, this needs to be said. Petitioning governments is nothing more than beggary. Writing letters to these governments is like writing a letter to Hitler, begging him to do something to preserve the rights of Jews. Or alternatively, it is like praying to Poseidon, that he might stop the next hurricane. Beseeching authorities, earthly or heavenly, which neither the capacity nor the will to care is the vainest of all endeavors. We are utterly and completely powerless to save the victims of violence. States operate on national interest, not morality. States have mutually beneficial relationships with each other which supersede any appeals to morality or cries for justice. This is the reality.

The Egyptian military might not care. Obama might not care. God might not care. The good news is that condemning violence matters to you and to me. The best way we can do that is not only by bringing attention to this sort of thing, as to dismember the affinity people have for political campaigns that pretend to champion what's good for people, but to also to condemn violence in our own personal lives.

We teach our children that violence gets things done when we demand they respect our every command, lest they face corporeal punishment. We glorify democracy and governments when voting and states are inherently thieving, and violent. And we wonder why violence happens on the scale that it does in the world?

[center]Image[/center]

We don't have the power to do anything beyond maintaining peaceful relationships in our own lives and creating awareness about the undeniable immorality of violence initiated against others.
Hi Darias,

Thank you so much for your kind words and encouragement. We agree that Morsi was not a good leader, and also that the Egyptian military's murders of his Muslim Brotherhood supporters is wrong.

I'm not sure if I agree with you that beseeching authorities is "nothing short of beggary". It has worked in the past, including an example in the city where I am from. A Muslim man from Syria, whom I have gotten to know, was in danger of being deported to that country, for crossing into Canada illegally. His dad was a member of an opposition group that was not committing acts of violence, and was tortured. The man would also have been tortured if the deportation went on ahead.

Some Christian friends and I got together with some Muslim friends of his, as well as some local human rights groups. We wrote letters to our leaders, as well as picketed our immigration office. Some people went to the media as well, and wrote in the paper. I spread the word among other students and people I knew, and encouraged them to also write letters. I encouraged my Christian friends also to pray, and I am sure his Muslim friends did too. The situation lasted for a few months- first the immigration authorities would threaten to deport him, then they'd say they'd consider letting him stay, then they'd threaten him with deportation again. Each time they threatened to deport our friend, we would increase the petitions and awareness raising. It must have been nerve wracking for my friend, it was also stressful for us. I think it's very possible that my phone may have been being tapped, when I would talk to people who were involved in the campaign, we would hear strange clicking noises. Eventually, praise be to God, they decided to not deport him and now he is a resident and is no longer in danger of being thrown out of the country.

This was a small example, but it shows that petitioning even the government can work. Amnesty International will tell you that many unfairly detained or sometimes even "disappeared" people were released by their governments after being flooded with letters and petitions from total strangers calling for their release.

In addition to being non-violent in our everyday life, there are other things that can also be done.
As a Christian who tries to follow Jesus' call to be a peacemaker and to hunger and thirst for justice, I have been involved in antiwar demos where I live and volunteer with kids in the inner city, and have also gone to the West Bank with Christian Peacemaker Teams and International Solidarity Movement and have documented and spread awareness about abuses against Palestinian civilians. My work got me beaten up with a metal pipe by some Israeli settlers, and I had to be hospitalized and have surgery on my nose, which they broke. Along with our Palestinian friends and other activists, we ran from the Israeli army when they chased us and tried to arrest us and threw sound bombs at us. Unlike our Palestinian friends, my fellow activists and myself could leave whenever we wanted.
I also had the honour and privilege of working with a group called No More Deaths on the US-Mexico border in Arizona, where we provided food, water and medical aid to Mexican and Central American migrants who were coming over illegally to work for minimum wage (often less) and send the money back home so their families would not go hungry. Our work included leaving water bottles in the desert, running a field camp where people could come to and get fed and looked after, but also documenting stories of abuses perpetrated against these people by not only the Mexican police and the criminal gangs that prey on them, but also the US Border Patrol. Hundreds of people die trying to cross into the US to work every year, many of them in the Sonora Desert. Many deaths are from heatstroke and dehydration. The sun literally bakes the victims alive. And the crushing poverty that forces so many of them to flee is caused by US and Canadian trade policies. We help destroy their economies, then punish them for fleeing the hell we have caused so their kids can eat.

I have only spent a few weeks in both Arizona and the West Bank and then returned home. I would spread awareness and continue to do so, but it is not much. There are people who live in these places and devote their lives to working for peace and justice. Israelis and Palestinians who are involved in human rights and who face arrests, beatings, shootings for documenting the truth and standing up for victims of injustice and violence. Mexican and American activists on both sides of the border who provide humanitarian aid to the migrants and who face police harrassment for doing so. Unlike me and others who will go and serve for a few weeks or even a few months or a few years, they are doing it "full time". They are the heroes, and they show us that it is possible to stand up for justice.

Being peaceful refusing to use or approve violence is an awesome start. I think we can also go further.

OK, I have probably ranted and raved and derailed my own thread so I am going to sign off now. Have a great evening and it was great exchanging thoughts with you.

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