What defines a sin?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Miles
Guru
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #11

Post by Miles »

Overcomer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:21 pm
Sin is anything that separates us from God.
In a lot of cases that would include reason. Many, many people have dumped god because they found him an unreasonable concept. So, obviously reasoning is a sin. That about it?


.

User avatar
Aetixintro
Site Supporter
Posts: 789
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:18 am
Location: Metropolitan-Oslo, Norway, Europe
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #12

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to Miles in post #11]

I think it's fair to say that all sins work for evil. And evil is what separates us from God.

So the downward spiral of evil is what must be avoided and to avoid it is to avoid being sinful.

8-) :study:
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

User avatar
Miles
Guru
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #13

Post by Miles »

Aetixintro wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:20 pm
[Replying to Miles in post #11]

I think it's fair to say that all sins work for evil.
Curious; what does "work for evil" mean? In what way does sin work for evil?

And evil is what separates us from God.
And isn't it interesting that god would create something that separates us from him.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

It's as if he doesn't want us.


.

User avatar
PinSeeker
Guru
Posts: 1994
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:07 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #14

Post by PinSeeker »

Miles wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:24 pm
Overcomer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:21 pm
Sin is anything that separates us from God.
In a lot of cases that would include reason. Many, many people have dumped god because they found him an unreasonable concept. So, obviously reasoning is a sin.
Well, the reason of God is very often much different than the “reason” of man. Reason, in and of itself, is certainly not sin, so no, what you assert is certainly not “about it.” Exchanging the truth — and reason — of God for a lie and denying that truth and reason (in unrighteousness) is most assuredly a sin, and really the Sin (capital ‘S’) embedded in all sins in one way or another. This is exactly Paul’s point in Romans 1.

Grace and peace to all.

User avatar
Miles
Guru
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #15

Post by Miles »

PinSeeker wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:18 pm
Miles wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:24 pm
Overcomer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:21 pm
Sin is anything that separates us from God.
In a lot of cases that would include reason. Many, many people have dumped god because they found him an unreasonable concept. So, obviously reasoning is a sin.
Well, the reason of God is very often much different than the “reason” of man.
I assume you mean the "reasoning" of god and the "reasoning" of man. If so, how do you know it's different, and in what way?
Reason, in and of itself, is certainly not sin, so no, what you assert is certainly not “about it.”
Logically it is: (Barbara)

Anything that separates us from god is a sin (per Overcomer)

Reason is a thing that separates us from god
___________________________
Reason is a sin

Now, if you still dispute the conclusion here take it up with Overcomer. It's his premise.
Exchanging the truth — and reason — of God for a lie and denying that truth and reason (in unrighteousness) is most assuredly a sin, and really the Sin (capital ‘S’) embedded in all sins in one way or another. This is exactly Paul’s point in Romans 1.
Assuming you're talking about the issue here, just what lie is that? (Actually, I don't think I understand a thing you've said here. Perhaps you could rephrase.

.
Last edited by Miles on Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
PinSeeker
Guru
Posts: 1994
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:07 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #16

Post by PinSeeker »

Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:15 pm
Aetixintro wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:20 pm
[Replying to Miles in post #11]

I think it's fair to say that all sins work for evil.
Curious; what does "work for evil" mean? In what way does sin work for evil?

And evil is what separates us from God.
And isn't it interesting that god would create something that separates us from him.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

It's as if he doesn't want us.
God is not the author of sin; James is very clear about that (1:13-15). Man is the author of sin, just as Adam was in Eden. But God does often use (in a sinless way, of course) the sinfulness of man to accomplish His good purposes.

Regarding Isaiah 45:7, as I said in another thread, if the word ‘evil’ is read correctly as a synonym — and it certainly can be; to deny this possibility is quite silly — for ‘disaster.’ ‘doom,’ ‘woe,’ ‘sorrow,’ ‘trouble,’ ‘calamity,’ ‘trouble(s),’ ‘bad,’ ‘discord,’ ‘hard times,’ ‘bad times,’ and "adversity,’ then Isaiah’s words there can be read in the correct light. Everything God does is good, and according to His perfect plan, and for His glory... and for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpiose (Romans 8:28)... whether men, in their “reasoning,” think so or not.

Grace and peace to all.

User avatar
PinSeeker
Guru
Posts: 1994
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:07 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #17

Post by PinSeeker »

Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
PinSeeker wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:18 pm
Miles wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:24 pm
Overcomer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:21 pm
Sin is anything that separates us from God.
In a lot of cases that would include reason. Many, many people have dumped god because they found him an unreasonable concept. So, obviously reasoning is a sin.
Well, the reason of God is very often much different than the “reason” of man.
I assume you mean the "reasoning" of god and the "reasoning" of man. If so, how do you know it's different, and in what way?
In many ways it’s not really possible in our finite state to know. Sometimes — often — we just have ra accept that God’s ways are not our ways, His thoughts not our thoughts (Isaiah 55), His knowledge is so high that we cannot attain to it (Psalm 139), and we can’t know the mind of the Lord or be His counselor (Romans 11).
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
Reason, in and of itself, is certainly not sin, so no, what you assert is certainly not “about it.”
Logically it is: (Barbara)

Anything that separates us from god is a sin (per Overcomer)

Reason is a thing that separates us from god
___________________________
Reason is a sin
Naw. Using reason in a wrongful way — and I don’t mean merely being wrong about this or that — is the sin. Much the same as drinking is not a sin but abuse of alcohol is.
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
Now, if you still dispute the conclusion here take it up with Overcomer. It's his premise.
Nope. Overcomer is right.
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
Exchanging the truth — and reason — of God for a lie and denying that truth and reason (in unrighteousness) is most assuredly a sin, and really the Sin (capital ‘S’) embedded in all sins in one way or another. This is exactly Paul’s point in Romans 1.
Assuming you're talking about the issue here, just what is that? (Actually, I don't think I understand a thing you've said here.

If reason is really reason, mustn’t it necessarily be truthful? I think you can understand with a little more effort, maybe It’s not difficult. Maybe you just don’t want to...?
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
Perhaps you could rephrase.
I think what I said is very clear. Perhaps what I have said in this and the previous post make it clearer.

Grace and peace to you.

User avatar
Miles
Guru
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #18

Post by Miles »

PinSeeker wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:57 pm
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:15 pm
Aetixintro wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:20 pm
[Replying to Miles in post #11]

I think it's fair to say that all sins work for evil.
Curious; what does "work for evil" mean? In what way does sin work for evil?

And evil is what separates us from God.
And isn't it interesting that god would create something that separates us from him.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

It's as if he doesn't want us.
God is not the author of sin; James is very clear about that (1:13-15). Man is the author of sin, just as Adam was in Eden. But God does often use (in a sinless way, of course) the sinfulness of man to accomplish His good purposes.
Of course, I never said god was the author of sin, just the author of evil because . . .well, because the Bible says he says he is:

KJV
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

ASV
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

GNV
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

BRG
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

JUB
I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil: I am the LORD that does all this.

DARBY
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.

AKJV
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

DRA
I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.

ETC.

ETC.

ETC.
Regarding Isaiah 45:7, as I said in another thread, if the word ‘evil’ is read correctly as a synonym — and it certainly can be; to deny this possibility is quite silly — for ‘disaster.’ ‘doom,’ ‘woe,’ ‘sorrow,’ ‘trouble,’ ‘calamity,’ ‘trouble(s),’ ‘bad,’ ‘discord,’ ‘hard times,’ ‘bad times,’ and "adversity,’ then Isaiah’s words there can be read in the correct light. Everything God does is good, and according to His perfect plan, and for His glory... and for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpiose (Romans 8:28)... whether men, in their “reasoning,” think so or not.
And as I told you before: "evil" and "sorrow" are NOT synonyms, nor are "hard times" and "doom." Obviously you have absolutely no idea what a synonym is and don't care to learn, or are afraid to.
Everything God does is good,
Like condoning slavery.
Or Killing innocent women and children.
Or advising the parents of a stubborn and rebellious son to have the town's people stone him to death.
Or having men killed because they engage in homosexual sex
Or telling people to kill witches.
Or ordering people to kill anyone who has sex with an animal.
And, of course, creating evil is always a good thing to do

And, because god finds these things to be good, we do them today . . . . . . . . . . oops, hold on . . . . . . . . .NO! We don't do these "good" things today because we don't find them to be good at all. So . . . .Image . . . . everything god does is NOT good.

.

User avatar
Miles
Guru
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #19

Post by Miles »

PinSeeker wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:27 pm
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
PinSeeker wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:18 pm
Miles wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:24 pm
Overcomer wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:21 pm
Sin is anything that separates us from God.
In a lot of cases that would include reason. Many, many people have dumped god because they found him an unreasonable concept. So, obviously reasoning is a sin.
Well, the reason of God is very often much different than the “reason” of man.
I assume you mean the "reasoning" of god and the "reasoning" of man. If so, how do you know it's different, and in what way?
In many ways it’s not really possible in our finite state to know. Sometimes — often — we just have ra accept that God’s ways are not our ways, His thoughts not our thoughts (Isaiah 55), His knowledge is so high that we cannot attain to it (Psalm 139), and we can’t know the mind of the Lord or be His counselor (Romans 11).
Yet you just got done saying you DID know: "the reason of God is very often much different than the “reason” of man." And Psalm 139 doesn't say a thing about god's reasoning. PLEASE keep in mind that reasoning and knowledge are not the same thing.

PinSeeker wrote:
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
Reason, in and of itself, is certainly not sin, so no, what you assert is certainly not “about it.”
Logically it is: (Barbara)

Anything that separates us from god is a sin (per Overcomer)

Reason is a thing that separates us from god
___________________________
Reason is a sin
Naw. Using reason in a wrongful way — is the sin.
Evidently using reason (logic here) is wrongful when it proves you wrong. If not, please explain the wrongful way in which it's used here.

PinSeeker wrote:
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
Now, if you still dispute the conclusion here take it up with Overcomer. It's his premise.
Nope. Overcomer is right.
Then the conclusion in the syllogism, "Reason is a sin," is sound. (If both premises are true and the the form is valid the conclusion is sound)

PinSeeker wrote:
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
Exchanging the truth — and reason — of God for a lie and denying that truth and reason (in unrighteousness) is most assuredly a sin, and really the Sin (capital ‘S’) embedded in all sins in one way or another. This is exactly Paul’s point in Romans 1.
Assuming you're talking about the issue here, just what is that? (Actually, I don't think I understand a thing you've said here.

If reason is really reason, mustn’t it necessarily be truthful?
Yeah, I figured you'd be unable to answer my question, but just plow ahead. In any case, Ever hear of faulting reasoning? Of course you have. You know, when someone says something stupid like: "We know the Bible is true because there was a miracle witnessed by 500 people. And, we know that there was a miracle witnessed by 500 people because the Bible says so." OR:


If the Bible were not true, logic would not be meaningful.
Logic is meaningful.
Therefore, the Bible is true.

PinSeeker wrote: I think you can understand with a little more effort, maybe It’s not difficult. Maybe you just don’t want to...?
And again, something else you've said but can't explain.
PinSeeker wrote:
Miles wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:51 pm
Perhaps you could rephrase.
I think what I said is very clear. Perhaps what I have said in this and the previous post make it clearer.
Not a bit. And in as much as you were unaware that reason can be faulty I don't hold much hope that what you've said would make it any clearer.


.

2timothy316
Guru
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: What defines a sin?

Post #20

Post by 2timothy316 »

Miles wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:44 pm
onewithhim wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:21 pm
You are right. God wouldn't condemn someone who had homosexual tendencies and yet never carried through on those feelings. It is true....the ACT of homosexuality is what God finds repulsive. There are several scriptures that condemn the homosexual act, besides the one you refer to in Leviticus.

"Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them...God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature, and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene..." (Romans 1:24,26,27)


"What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God's Kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor men who lie with men, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God's Kingdom." (I Corinthians 6:9,10)


There are more. I think these suffice to show God's position on the homosexual act.
Although god really hates homosexual sex, obviously putting it at the far end of his scale of things he doesn't care for, lacking any evidence from you that he considers it to be an actual sin, I'm concluding that you agree he doesn't consider it such. In god's eyes it's just something that's really, really, R E A L L Y bad, but doesn't rise to the level of sin.

..
Wait, lets make this clear, so because the Bible doesn't say word for word 'homosexuality is a sin' you don't think that it's a sin? Is this your reasoning why you don't believe Roman 1:24, 26, 27 and 1 Cor 6:9, 10 are calling homosexuality is a sin? So a person that has sex with a person of the same sex isn't getting into God's Kingdom, not because of sin, but because God just doesn't like homosexuality....right? If that is your reasoning, then "fornicators, idolators, adulterers, greedy persons, drunkards, revilers, extortioners" are not sins?

If so then what do you make of Proverbs 6:16-19?

There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

This says that God merely hates 'hands that shed innocent blood'. So murder is not a sin because this scripture only says God hates it but it doesn't say its a sin....explain this and why we can't conclude anything that God hates or is unclean to Him is a sin.

Post Reply