Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

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Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

This thread covers an interesting and important subject for us to discuss and debate.

This first post is brief, and asks these questions:

1). What is this Genesis 1:27 scripture telling us, as you understand it, about God, and about mankind?
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
2a). Does the Bible give any direct or specific answers to question 1, in this verse, or anywhere else?

2b). If you conclude it does, where are the verses and what do they specify?

If you conclude it does not, why doesn't it do so?


3). The previous verse puts our subject in a different way.
26 Then God said, “Let Us/us make man in Our/our image, after our/Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”
3a). Why is the difference there; plural in this verse, 26, and singular in verse 27?

3b). Who is "our/Our" and "Us/us" referring to? God as a Trinity, the angels, or?

3c). Do Christianity and Judaism give different answers to question 3b?
If so, what, and why?

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Re: Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #2

Post by Miles »

Checkpoint wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 am This thread covers an interesting and important subject for us to discuss and debate.

This first post is brief, and asks these questions:

1). What is this Genesis 1:27 scripture telling us, as you understand it, about God, and about mankind?
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
2a). Does the Bible give any direct or specific answers to question 1, in this verse, or anywhere else?

2b). If you conclude it does, where are the verses and what do they specify?

If you conclude it does not, why doesn't it do so?
Well, other interpretations may be of help. Or not.


CEV
So God created humans to be like himself; he made men and women.

ERV
So God created humans in his own image. He created them to be like himself. He created them male and female.

GNT
So God created human beings, making them to be like himself. He created them male and female,

LEB
So God created humankind in his image, in the likeness of God he created him, male and female he created them.

NLV
And God made man in His own likeness. In the likeness of God He made him. He made both male and female.

So the verse may be telling the reader that god created humans to "be like himself" or "in his likeness." both of which takes the implication away from the most common meaning of "image," which is "a visual representation of something" and "a mental picture or impression of something." (source: Merriam Webster Dictionary) In which case "image" wold signify inner, personal characteristics rather than god's outward physical characteristics.

3a). Why is the difference there; plural in this verse, 26, and singular in verse 27?
My guess is that the writer of 27 never heard of verse 26. After all its format is quite different---a heavily indented block rather than the border-to-border format like the rest of the chapter in many Bibles.
3b). Who is "our/Our" and "Us/us" referring to? God as a Trinity, the angels, or?
Yeah! Just who are these helpers god needs in order to create man? After having created the universe one would think creating man would be a walk in the park for god. Obviously, not so.


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Re: Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #3

Post by historia »

Checkpoint wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 am
1). What is this Genesis 1:27 scripture telling us, as you understand it, about God, and about mankind?
I think the point of the passage is that humanity has a special place in God's creation.

Historically, many theologians -- from Augustine to Aquinas and beyond -- have considered the "image of God" to be that which distinguishes humans from other animals, such as intellect and will.
Checkpoint wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 am
2a). Does the Bible give any direct or specific answers to question 1, in this verse, or anywhere else?

2b). If you conclude it does, where are the verses and what do they specify?

If you conclude it does not, why doesn't it do so?
Aside from the author of this verse, a number of later biblical authors mention the same idea: Sirach 17:3, Wisdom 2:23, 1 Cor. 11:7, Col. 3:10, Eph. 4:24, James 3:9.

But I'm not personally familiar with passages that describe what, exactly, the "image" or "likeness" of God is, if that is the question. I assume later authors just didn't feel the need to expound on it.
Checkpoint wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 am
3a). Why is the difference there; plural in this verse, 26, and singular in verse 27?

3b). Who is "our/Our" and "Us/us" referring to? God as a Trinity, the angels, or?

3c). Do Christianity and Judaism give different answers to question 3b?
If so, what, and why?
I think the original author likely intended the "our" and "us" to refer to the gods. Jews today interpret this as a reference to angels (which, ontologically, are not that different from gods) and Christians have long seen the Trinity in this plural usage.

Different religious communities at different times interpret this (and other passages) differently because everyone reads scripture through the lens of tradition. There is no objective way to read the text, and we all come to the Bible with preconceived ideas and theologies.

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Re: Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #4

Post by Miles »

historia wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:34 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 am
1). What is this Genesis 1:27 scripture telling us, as you understand it, about God, and about mankind?
I think the point of the passage is that humanity has a special place in God's creation.

Historically, many theologians -- from Augustine to Aquinas and beyond -- have considered the "image of God" to be that which distinguishes humans from other animals, such as intellect and will.
Checkpoint wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 am
2a). Does the Bible give any direct or specific answers to question 1, in this verse, or anywhere else?

2b). If you conclude it does, where are the verses and what do they specify?

If you conclude it does not, why doesn't it do so?
Aside from the author of this verse, a number of later biblical authors mention the same idea: Sirach 17:3, Wisdom 2:23, 1 Cor. 11:7, Col. 3:10, Eph. 4:24, James 3:9.
Although Sirach 17:3 says:

3 He endowed them with strength like his own,
and made them in his own image.

this is obviously a gross exaggeration. And if the writers are wrong about the strength god endowed humans with couldn't they be equally wrong about god making them in his own image here?

Checkpoint wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 am
3a). Why is the difference there; plural in this verse, 26, and singular in verse 27?

3b). Who is "our/Our" and "Us/us" referring to? God as a Trinity, the angels, or?

3c). Do Christianity and Judaism give different answers to question 3b?
If so, what, and why?
I think the original author likely intended the "our" and "us" to refer to the gods. Jews today interpret this as a reference to angels (which, ontologically, are not that different from gods)
If they're ontologically no different than gods, just how do they differ? And speaking of gods, why would god, thee omnipotent being, need assistance from the other gods to create humans?

Genesis 1:26
And God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”

AND, just who are these other gods anyway? Got any idea?

and Christians have long seen the Trinity in this plural usage.
But such usage only indicates one god, does it not? The god of Abraham, which is made up of three "persons".

Different religious communities at different times interpret this (and other passages) differently because everyone reads scripture through the lens of tradition. There is no objective way to read the text, and we all come to the Bible with preconceived ideas and theologies.
And what does that say about Christianity? With more than 45,000 denominations globally,* it says that choosing a denomination is pretty much a crap-shoot. And because so many denominations claim to be the only way to salvation it would appear to be critical crap-shoot


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Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #5

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to Miles in post #4]
Different religious communities at different times interpret this (and other passages) differently because everyone reads scripture through the lens of tradition. There is no objective way to read the text, and we all come to the Bible with preconceived ideas and theologies.
And what does that say about Christianity? With more than 45,000 denominations globally,* it says that choosing a denomination is pretty much a crap-shoot. And because so many denominations claim to be the only way to salvation it would appear to be critical crap-shoot.
Reading the above makes it sound like wilderness wandering, or, as Solomon put it, "chasing after the wind".

Or, chasing another, such as tradition or a denomination.

Or chasing our tail, such as our own lens or preconceived ideas.

All I know is that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and is therefore the one to follow to reach the Father.

And that that Father says His thoughts and ways are not ours, and that we are to "listen to him(His son Jesus)", who said the Holy Spirit leads into all truth.

God always has good advice for us, such as this, for example, from Proverbs 3:5-6:

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.






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Re: Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #6

Post by Miles »

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:52 pm
All I know is that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and is therefore the one to follow to reach the Father.
How is it you know this? Not just believe it, but have knowledge of it?

God always has good advice for us, such as this, for example, from Proverbs 3:5-6:
And the following advice as well I imagine.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them"
Leviticus 20:13

and

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19

and

If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her. Deuteronomy 25:5


All good pieces of advice.

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Re: Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:01 pm
Genesis 1:26
And God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”

AND, just who are these other gods anyway?
Not gods (plural) god (singular): scripture indicates YHWH was speaking to The Word, his first and foremost spirit creation; later known as the human Jesus Christ.




Image




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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #8

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:33 pm
Not gods (plural) god (singular): scripture indicates YHWH was speaking to The Word, his first and foremost spirit creation; later known as the human Jesus Christ.
Because this is highly dubious---as I see it, a conclusion concocted to fit this rather odd statement into your theology, rather than a conclusion derived from supporting scripture---I am curious as to what particular scripture points to the "Us" and "Our" in Genesis 1:26 as referencing The Word (Jesus Christ). Chapter and verse will do.


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Re: Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:44 pm ... what particular scripture points to the "Us" and "Our" in Genesis 1:26 as referencing The Word (Jesus Christ).
COLOSSIANS 1:15, 16
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.

PROVERBS 8:30, 31
I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time; I rejoiced over his habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men.

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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

Post #10

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 am 1). What is this Genesis 1:27 scripture telling us, as you understand it, about God, and about mankind?
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, and assigned a host of angels to care for the earth.
Some of these angels, led by Satan, revolted against God and left their first estate.

God returned, re-created the earth to its good state, and then created mankind as follows:

Genesis 1:26-27
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


There are two worlds according to the Bible – the physical world and the spiritual world.

The original beings assigned as earthly caretakers were immortal spiritual beings.

The words “us” and “our” refer to God and the other angels – or every “intelligent” being there at the time -- as man was not yet created.

In our image refers to the relationship between God and the other angels. That relationship being that God rules over everything in existence, but He has given dominion over the earth to other spiritual beings.

Mankind is created and given dominion over the earth, thus replacing the angels who failed. The God/man relationship mirrors the God/angel relationship.

Notice that mankind is created as “male and female.”

Being created male and female implies Adam and Eve are physical beings, living in the physical world!

That is, godly spiritual beings have no reason to reproduce -- being immortal.

Man was created originally with two differences between him and the angels! These two differences between men and angels are described in the book of Genesis. They are body type and knowledge of good and evil. Two trees in the Garden of Eden represented each of these differences.

Man became closer to being like the angels upon eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The one remaining difference between man and the angels is body type, physical versus spiritual.

Jesus confirms this in the Book of John by stating there is only one thing man must do to become equal unto the angels. That one thing is to be born again of the Spirit.

Adam and Eve were not ejected from the garden because they sinned. They were expelled from the Garden of Eden so that they could not eat from the tree of life and live forever!

So being created in the image of God does not indicate man was created with immortality!

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