The Doctrine of Satan

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William
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The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by William »

William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:08 pm
IF Jesus 'died that we may live" "For The Creator so loved the world...that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" THEN what does that actually mean, if all are eternal beings already?
PinSeeker wrote:Are you asking this rhetorically? Or is this really a question in your mind? It's a good question. Maybe you're asking it of myth-one so that he might re-think his position(s)?
It is a bit of both really.

It appears to me that the Bible is an outline of the story of human beings in relation to Satan.

It is not really so much a 'manual for life given to us from a God' so much as it is an "explanation of Satan and the effect that entity has in relation to other spirit beings"

Christians often invoke "The Devil" as a retort when it becomes obvious to them that those they are trying to convince that their particular religion is the one to follow, reject their cliam. Any opposition to their position, is regarded as "The Devil".

Indeed, it is apparent that without "The Devil" Christianity would cease to exist as a bunch of religions.

So never-to-mind the conflicting versions of The Creator they have imaged into the world...if we look at what they claim about Satan, are they united in those claims?

One thing I notice about the attributes of Satan is that he appears to be only slightly less powerful than the God of the bible...and for that, also appears to be working in a sort of congruent manner with the GotB. Certainly the GotB finds Satan extremely useful in relation to dealing with spirits incarcerated into human form.

So Satan is something of an accuser. He is also portrayed as someone who likes to seed doubt into the individual, and confusion as consequence.

The mythology as generally believed by Christians is that Satan wanted to "become like God" rather than just be a god.

Obviously he cannot make his fellow eternal beings follow along with his crazy notions as they are equal to him in every way. Satan has this weird image of The Creator which he wants to bring into the spirt realm...a being on a throne worshiped as The Creator of all that is.

However, according to Christian mythology, this being actually does sit on a throne being worshipped by spirit beings [Angels etc] which seems to contradict the prior story, which leads to confusion.

The main problem with the belief in the doctrine of Satan is that if Satan wanted to be above that image, simply replacing The Creator with himself on the throne, won't achieve that.

So now we are looking at spirit beings worshiping an image of The Creator on a throne and Satan wanting to be an actual representation of the image being worship. He wanted to fill that position with a real being [him] rather than the one conjured up by Angels [eternal spiritual entities]

"NO!" Shout the Christians! The Creator was already the real being on The Throne! Satan wanted that position!

But that contradicts the idea that Satan wanted to be in a position even better [higher] than simply being the one on The Throne.

According to the general mythology, some of the fellow Angels got on board with Satan's idea while others [the greater number of] rejected the idea.

Then there is some almost nonsensical claims that somehow the greater number of Angels overpowered Satan and his followers, and The Creator on the throne then created the physical universe as a sure way to imprison eternal beings away from them having any more disruptive influence in the none material universe of the Angels [Angelic Realm] and their Creator.

Satan - thus incarcerated - then found a way in which he could disrupt the Angelic Realm by creating human beings.

"NO" shout the Christians. The Creator created human beings!

"Okay" I reply, "If that is the case, why did The Creator place spiritual entities into the human domain [physical universe]?"

The general reply is that it was 'the other way around' The Creator placed human beings into the same Universe [!!] in which The Creator had created to imprison Satan and his followers in.

So then one is entitled [and wise] to ask "Why" The Creator did this.

The obvious answer reverts back to the idea that the Human Form - being part of the physical universe was designed to house Satan and his followers, which then implies that we human beings are Satan and his followers.

So then we enter the Garden of Eden Story...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

Is there any reason why the above isn't true?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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For example, by telling what the Bible says about God.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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1213 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:44 pm
For example, by telling what the Bible says about God.
Plus 'what the bible says about Satan.' which is of course, the point to this thread...

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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William wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:55 pm
1213 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:44 pm
For example, by telling what the Bible says about God.
Plus 'what the bible says about Satan.' which is of course, the point to this thread...
...
But, satan is not necessary in knowing God.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #75

Post by William »

1213 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 3:25 pm
William wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:55 pm
1213 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:44 pm
For example, by telling what the Bible says about God.
Plus 'what the bible says about Satan.' which is of course, the point to this thread...
...
But, satan is not necessary in knowing God.
Tell that to the Christians. They are the ones who argue that is the case. If you can't tell the fake from the real how Satan can appear as an angel of light...who is it that sits on the throne being worshipped?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #76

Post by Purple Knight »

William wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:12 pmwho is it that sits on the throne being worshiped?
Either the Most Powerful Being (MPB) is fair or it isn't.

If the MPB isn't fair there's nothing we can do about it and we're going to be punished arbitrarily, so there's no point in trying to please an unfair being. It's a waste of energy.

If the MPB is fair, he's not going to punish you for getting his name wrong. And if it's Lucifer the Light, there are clues, because a fair being wouldn't expect you to just guess correctly.

C.S. Lewis had the idea that you can't worship incorrectly. If you worship Tash because you think Tash represents good, you don't lose because Tash happens to be evil. If you worship good, the name you put to that worship doesn't matter. If the oath given was kept, it was to Aslan whether you said Aslan or not. If the oath given was broken, it was to Tash whether you said Tash or not. Personally I am in love with this idea because if the MPB is fair, this idea follows from that alone. If somebody told you some evil being such as Tash was God, you'd have no way to know it wasn't God, so you's worship it, and a fair MPB wouldn't expect you to turn against what you know by the best way you know it (which is very often other people) because that's just expecting a correct guess, and that's not fair.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #77

Post by 1213 »

William wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:12 pm ... If you can't tell the fake from the real how Satan can appear as an angel of light...
Only way for satan to successfully pretend to be angel of light is that people don’t really know God and his angels. And satan certainly is not helping people to know God.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #78

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1213 wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 1:25 pm
William wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:12 pm ... If you can't tell the fake from the real how Satan can appear as an angel of light...
Only way for satan to successfully pretend to be angel of light is that people don’t really know God and his angels. And satan certainly is not helping people to know God.
The point being that "God and his angels" [as generally understood] may not be anything other than Satan and his angels. The idea/image of a God on a throne being worshiped by angelic beings may be the very deception already firmly in place and believed by billions of human beings to being a true image of The Creator.

What about the image makes you believe it is true?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #79

Post by William »

Purple Knight wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:10 pm
William wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:12 pmwho is it that sits on the throne being worshiped?
Either the Most Powerful Being (MPB) is fair or it isn't.

If the MPB isn't fair there's nothing we can do about it and we're going to be punished arbitrarily, so there's no point in trying to please an unfair being. It's a waste of energy.

If the MPB is fair, he's not going to punish you for getting his name wrong. And if it's Lucifer the Light, there are clues, because a fair being wouldn't expect you to just guess correctly.

C.S. Lewis had the idea that you can't worship incorrectly. If you worship Tash because you think Tash represents good, you don't lose because Tash happens to be evil. If you worship good, the name you put to that worship doesn't matter. If the oath given was kept, it was to Aslan whether you said Aslan or not. If the oath given was broken, it was to Tash whether you said Tash or not. Personally I am in love with this idea because if the MPB is fair, this idea follows from that alone. If somebody told you some evil being such as Tash was God, you'd have no way to know it wasn't God, so you's worship it, and a fair MPB wouldn't expect you to turn against what you know by the best way you know it (which is very often other people) because that's just expecting a correct guess, and that's not fair.
This is why I created the thread "The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife" and argue that position [3] is the fairest most logical one to assume.
[3] A "Person" is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase.
What is fair is just.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by 1213 »

William wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 1:48 pm ...The idea/image of a God on a throne being worshiped...
Perhaps that is the reason why Bible forbids to make images of God.

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