Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus

[thomasdixon]

My confession
My mother gave me a King James Bible when I was a child. Seventy-one (71) years later I still have it. My bible has numerous marker tags highlighting what I found interesting and worth reminding me of for future review.
I began by reading the New Testament which is full of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus taught us how to be kind to others, as in the stranger but most of all Jesus used the Book of Ezekiel one of the major prophetic books in the Old Testament. It records six visions of the prophet Ezekiel, exiled in Babylon, during the 22 years from 593 to 571 BC.
The visions, and the book, are structured around three themes: (1) Judgment on Israel (chapters 1–24); (2) Judgment on the nations (chapters 25–32); and (3) Future blessings for Israel (chapters 33–48). Its themes include the concepts of the presence of God, purity, Israel as a divine community, and individual responsibility to God.
Book of Ezekiel - Wikipedia

During this period Jerusalem was under the rule of the Romans which the local community strongly rejected.
More famous Jewish teachers (Rabbis) come from Galilee than anywhere else in the world. They were known for their great reverence for Scripture and the passionate desire to be faithful to it. This translated into vibrant religious communities, devoted to strong families, their country, whose synagogues echoed the debate and discussions about keeping the Torah. They resisted the pagan influences of Hellenism far more than did their Judean counterparts. When the great revolt against the pagan Romans and their collaborators (66-74 AD) finally occurred, it began among the Galileans.
That the World May Know | Rabbi and Talmidim
in Palestine there were a number of occasions when more restless elements in the population resisted Roman abuses and followed the tradition of “zealousness for the Law.”
under the Romans (ruled 37-4 B.C.E.). Herod surrounded himself with Greek scholars and undertook many building projects, including a magnificent and fortified palace. He rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem.
Before he died, Jesus of Nazareth was born.

Life for the Jews under the procurators was exceedingly difficult. This protrait is confirmed by the Jewish historian Josephus who chronicled a number of events that provoked the Jews under Pilate and other procurators, leading to riots, beatings, and executions.
The last procurators in particular were indifferent to Jewish religious sensibilities; and various patriotic groups, to whom nationalism was an integral part of their religion, succeeded in polarizing the Jewish population and bringing on the first war with Rome in 66. The climax of the war, as noted earlier, was the destruction of the Temple in 70, though, according to Josephus, Titus sought to spare it.
Bar Kokhba Revolt, also called Second Jewish Revolt, (132–135 CE), Jewish rebellion against Roman rule in Judaea. The revolt was preceded by years of clashes between Jews and Romans in the area.
Bar Kokhba Revolt | History & Facts | Britannica

The history of the Jews in the Roman Empire
Rebellion in Judaea
Although Judaea was ruled by the Romans, the governors there had practiced the same kind of religious tolerance as was shown to Jews in Rome. However, Roman tactlessness and inefficiency, along with famine and internal squabbles, led to a rise in Jewish discontent.
In 66 AD, this discontent exploded into open rebellion. Four years later, the Roman army had crushed the revolt, but had also destroyed the temple. The sacred treasures were seized and shown off in a procession through the streets of Rome.
The Roman Empire: in the First Century. The Roman Empire. Jews In Roman Times | PBS

The history of Palestine is the study of the past in the region of Palestine, defined as the territory between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River (where Israel and Palestine are today). Strategically situated between three continents, Palestine has a tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. Palestine is the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity and has been controlled by many kingdoms and powers, including Ancient Egypt, Persia, Alexander the Great and his successors, the Roman Empire, several Muslim dynasties, and the Crusaders. In modern times, the area was ruled by the Ottoman Empire.

The region was among the earliest in the world to see human habitation, agricultural communities and civilization. The Canaanites established independent city-states that were influenced by the surrounding civilizations, among them Egypt, which ruled the area in the Late Bronze Age. The Assyrians conquered Palestine in the 8th century BCE, then the Babylonians in c. 601 BCE, followed by the Persians who conquered the Babylonian Empire in 539 BCE. Alexander the Great conquered Palestine in the late 330s BCE, beginning a long period of Hellenization. In the late 2nd century BCE, the semi-independent Hasmonean kingdom conquered most of Palestine but the kingdom gradually became a vassal of Rome, which annexed Palestine in 63 BCE. Roman rule was troubled by Jewish rebellions, which Rome answered with by destroying the Jews' temple.

In the late 2nd century BCE, the semi-independent Hasmonean kingdom conquered most of Palestine but the kingdom gradually became a vassal of Rome, which annexed Palestine in 63 BCE. Roman rule was troubled by Jewish rebellions, which Rome answered with by destroying the Jews' temple.
History of Palestine - Wikipedia

The crucifixion of Jesus occurred in 1st-century Judea, most likely in either AD 30 or AD 33. Jesus' crucifixion is described in the four canonical gospels, referred to in the New Testament epistles, attested to by other ancient sources, and is established as a historical event confirmed by non-Christian sources.

According to the canonical gospels, Jesus was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin, and then sentenced by Pontius Pilate to be scourged.

Sanhedrin Court
Jesus was stripped of his clothing and offered vinegar mixed with myrrh or gall to drink after saying "I am thirsty". He was then hung between two convicted thieves and, according to the Gospel of Mark, died by the 9th hour of the day (at around 3:00 p.m.). During this time, the soldiers affixed a sign to the top of the cross stating "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" which, according to the Gospel of John (John 19:20), was written in three languages (Hebrew, Latin, and Greek). They then divided his garments among themselves and cast lots for his seamless robe, according to the Gospel of John. According to the Gospel of John, after Jesus' death, one soldier (named in extra-Biblical tradition as Longinus) pierced his side with a spear to be certain that he had died, then blood and water gushed from the wound. The Bible describes seven statements that Jesus made while he was on the cross, as well as several supernatural events that occurred.
Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia

In the canonical gospels, Pilate's court refers to the trial of Jesus in praetorium before Pontius Pilate, preceded by the Sanhedrin Trial. In the Gospel of Luke, Pilate finds that Jesus, being from Galilee, belonged to Herod Antipas' jurisdiction, and so he decides to send Jesus to Herod. After questioning Jesus and receiving very few replies, Herod sees Jesus as no threat and returns him to Pilate.

In all four gospels, the Denial of Peter functions as an intermission during the Sanhedrin trial, while Matthew adds an intermission during the trial before Pilate that narrates the suicide of Judas Iscariot.

At the time Jerusalem was part of Roman Judea, the charges of the Sanhedrin against Jesus held no power before Pilate. He was therefore not a political threat and could be seen as innocent of such a charge. [Jn. 18:36]
Stepping back outside, Pilate publicly declared that he found no basis to charge Jesus,
Pilate's court - Wikipedia
Matthew 27:1–14
Early in the morning the chief priests (Rabbis)and elders planned to have Jesus executed.

Thirty pieces of silver was the price for which Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus, according to an account in the Gospel of Matthew 26:15 in the New Testament. Before the Last Supper, Judas is said to have gone to the chief priests and agreed to hand over Jesus in exchange for 30 silver coins, and to have attempted to return the money afterwards, filled with remorse.
Pilate explained the amnesty vote and asked: 'Do you want me to release 'the king of the Jews'?'
Chief priests (Rabbis) and officials shouted: 'Crucify! Crucify!' Pilate: 'Go ahead and crucify him. [Pilate says] I myself find no guilt in him.' Jewish leaders: 'Our law says he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God.'

Pilate, interrogated Jesus inside. Pilate tried to set Jesus free.
Jewish leaders: (Rabbis) If you let him go, you disobey Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.'
Pilate brought out Jesus around noon, saying: 'Here is your king.' They [Jewish leaders] shouted: 'Take him away, crucify him!'
Pilate: 'Shall I crucify your king?' Chief priests: 'We have no king but Caesar.'
Pilate handed Jesus over to them for crucifixion.

Early in the morning Jesus was taken to Pilate by the Jewish leaders (Rabbis)
Pilate, inside: 'Are you the king of the Jews?' Jesus: 'My kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my servants would have fought to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders.'

Pilate: 'You are a king, then!' Jesus: 'You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.' Pilate: 'What is truth?'
Pilate, outside: 'I find no guilt in him.'

In the New Testament, the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus refers to the trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (a Jewish judicial body) following his arrest in Jerusalem and prior to the trial before Pontius Pilate. It is an incident reported by all three Synoptic Gospels of the New Testament, while John's Gospel refers to a preliminary inquiry before Annas. The gospel accounts vary on a number of details.

Jesus is generally quiet, does not mount a defense, and rarely responds to the accusations, and is found guilty of various offenses: violating the Sabbath law (by healing on the Sabbath), threatening to destroy the Jewish Temple, practicing sorcery, exorcising people by the power of demons, and claiming to be the Messiah. He is then taken to Pontius Pilate, the governor of Roman Judaea, to be tried for claiming to be the King of the Jews.
Sanhedrin trial of Jesus - Wikipedia

Thereafter, in Pilate's Court, the Jewish elders (Rabbis) ask Pontius Pilate to judge and condemn Jesus, accusing him of claiming to be the King of the Jews. Such a claim would be considered treasonous, for being a direct challenge to the Roman authorities.

Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus.

[bjs1]

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #1]

The Sanhedrin pressured Pilate to crucify Jesus. They could not force him.

We can twist it around any way that we want, but at the end of the day Pilate had the power to execute a man who knew to be innocent, or to protect the innocent from a mob.

It is possible that protecting the innocent could have had consequences. However, Pilate had the power and he made his own choice.

[Miles]

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #1]

The Sanhedrin pressured Pilate to crucify Jesus. They could not force him.

We can twist it around any way that we want, but at the end of the day Pilate had the power to execute a man who knew to be innocent, or to protect the innocent from a mob.

It is possible that protecting the innocent could have had consequences. However, Pilate had the power and he made his own choice.

Consider putting a gun to someone's head and telling them they had better strip naked or you'd kill them. The "someone" had the power and they made their own choice. So where does the responsibility of their stripping lie, with the "someone" or with yourself?

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[bjs1]

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #1]

The Sanhedrin pressured Pilate to crucify Jesus. They could not force him.

We can twist it around any way that we want, but at the end of the day Pilate had the power to execute a man who knew to be innocent, or to protect the innocent from a mob.

It is possible that protecting the innocent could have had consequences. However, Pilate had the power and he made his own choice.

Consider putting a gun to someone's head and telling them they had better strip naked or you'd kill them. The "someone" had the power and they made their own choice. So where does the responsibility of their stripping lie, with the "someone" or with yourself?

.

No one held a gun to Pilates head. If anything, Pilate was the one holding the gun. He had the authority of Rome on his side. How he used that “gun” had consequences, but Pilate was the one with the power.

[Miles]

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #1]

The Sanhedrin pressured Pilate to crucify Jesus. They could not force him.

We can twist it around any way that we want, but at the end of the day Pilate had the power to execute a man who knew to be innocent, or to protect the innocent from a mob.

It is possible that protecting the innocent could have had consequences. However, Pilate had the power and he made his own choice.

Consider putting a gun to someone's head and telling them they had better strip naked or you'd kill them. The "someone" had the power and they made their own choice. So where does the responsibility of their stripping lie, with the "someone" or with yourself?

.

No one held a gun to Pilates head. If anything, Pilate was the one holding the gun. He had the authority of Rome on his side. How he used that “gun” had consequences, but Pilate was the one with the power.

Here's how the analogy works.

You with a gun are analogous to the Sanhedrin. Each pressures someone else to do something they would rather not.

The "someone" is analogous to Pilate. Each, acting as the object of either you or the Sanhedrin, can bow to the pressure or not. The "someone" can decide to either strip or be killed. Pilate can decide to either succumb to the pressure or hold his ground.


.

[William]

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #1]

The crucifixion of Jesus occurred in 1st-century Judea, most likely in either AD 30 or AD 33. Jesus' crucifixion is described in the four canonical gospels, referred to in the New Testament epistles, attested to by other ancient sources, and is established as a historical event confirmed by non-Christian sources.

If this [in bold] were true, we would know about it. What are your sources [you didn't say.]

Also - this is a debate forum - what is your question for debate?

[JehovahsWitness]

No one held a gun to Pilates head. If anything, Pilate was the one holding the gun. He had the authority of Rome on his side. How he used that “gun” had consequences, but Pilate was the one with the power.

Technically, yes but the Jewish leaders made the veiled threat to report him to Tiberius and that put Pilate in a very difficult situation. Jesus himself is reported to have commented, that the "greater sin" lay with his own people.

"Do you refuse to speak to me?" Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?" Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin." - John 19:10, 11

JW

[otseng]

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[bjs1]

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #1]

The Sanhedrin pressured Pilate to crucify Jesus. They could not force him.

We can twist it around any way that we want, but at the end of the day Pilate had the power to execute a man who knew to be innocent, or to protect the innocent from a mob.

It is possible that protecting the innocent could have had consequences. However, Pilate had the power and he made his own choice.

Consider putting a gun to someone's head and telling them they had better strip naked or you'd kill them. The "someone" had the power and they made their own choice. So where does the responsibility of their stripping lie, with the "someone" or with yourself?

.

No one held a gun to Pilates head. If anything, Pilate was the one holding the gun. He had the authority of Rome on his side. How he used that “gun” had consequences, but Pilate was the one with the power.

Here's how the analogy works.

You with a gun are analogous to the Sanhedrin. Each pressures someone else to do something they would rather not.

The "someone" is analogous to Pilate. Each, acting as the object of either you or the Sanhedrin, can bow to the pressure or not. The "someone" can decide to either strip or be killed. Pilate can decide to either succumb to the pressure or hold his ground.


.

I understand the analogy. It is a false analogy. The idea that someone held a metaphorical gun to Pilate’s head is completely inaccurate.

There is no "someone" that story who could (metaphorically) decide to either strip or be killed. The "someone" (Pilate) being pressured was the guy holding the gun (the might of the Roman Empire).

Here is a more accurate analogy:

Pilate had the gun. The Sanhedrin wanted him to use the gun. The Sanhedrin said that if he did not shoot a man whom Pilate knew to be innocent then the Sanhedrin would complain to Pilate’s boss about how he did not shoot that guy.

[Miles]

[Replying to thomasdixon in post #1]

The Sanhedrin pressured Pilate to crucify Jesus. They could not force him.

We can twist it around any way that we want, but at the end of the day Pilate had the power to execute a man who knew to be innocent, or to protect the innocent from a mob.

It is possible that protecting the innocent could have had consequences. However, Pilate had the power and he made his own choice.

Consider putting a gun to someone's head and telling them they had better strip naked or you'd kill them. The "someone" had the power and they made their own choice. So where does the responsibility of their stripping lie, with the "someone" or with yourself?

.

No one held a gun to Pilates head. If anything, Pilate was the one holding the gun. He had the authority of Rome on his side. How he used that “gun” had consequences, but Pilate was the one with the power.

Here's how the analogy works.

You with a gun are analogous to the Sanhedrin. Each pressures someone else to do something they would rather not.

The "someone" is analogous to Pilate. Each, acting as the object of either you or the Sanhedrin, can bow to the pressure or not. The "someone" can decide to either strip or be killed. Pilate can decide to either succumb to the pressure or hold his ground.


.

I understand the analogy. It is a false analogy. The idea that someone held a metaphorical gun to Pilate’s head is completely inaccurate.

There is no "someone" that story who could (metaphorically) decide to either strip or be killed. The "someone" (Pilate) being pressured was the guy holding the gun (the might of the Roman Empire).

Here is a more accurate analogy:

Pilate had the gun. The Sanhedrin wanted him to use the gun. The Sanhedrin said that if he did not shoot a man whom Pilate knew to be innocent then the Sanhedrin would complain to Pilate’s boss about how he did not shoot that guy.

In as much as you fail to understand the nature of an analogy, I give up.

Have a nice day.


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