#1 Jesus on hell

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Wootah
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#1 Jesus on hell

Post #1

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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?v ... 18%3A21-35
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down [a]at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”


Jesus tells a parable where the master actually tortures the unforgiving servant until he pays all that was due to him and after the parable says God will do this to each of us if we do not forgive each other.

* You can't torture a dead person or an annihilated person, so we know we have to be alive to be tortured.
* We can't pay our debt against God so we know the punishment is eternal.

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #101

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:57 pm For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)
Ironically, you are verifying, Scripturally, what I just said, myth-one, despite the face that you think you are refuting it. Thank you. Yes, we are free from the Mosaic Law and instead under the law of Christ, which is to love God with all of our being and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. The Mosaid Law no longer has any bearing over us because its demands have been fully met in the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith in Christ who satisfied the righteous demands of the Mosaic Law restores us into a pleasing relationship with God and keeps us there. No longer under the penalty of the Mosaic Law, we now live under the law of grace in the love of God.
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:57 pm You do not understand what saves mankind under the New Testament Covenant.
No, that's all you.
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:57 pm It is no longer having to remain without sin by never breaking any of God's laws.
That's exactly what I said.
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:57 pm We are saved under the New Testament by believing in Jesus as our Savior.
Yes, and upon this repenting and believing, we are placed under the law of grace in the love of God. See above.
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:57 pm The source of our everlasting life is the gift God allowed Jesus to offer to all who believe in Him. He earned that inheritance of everlasting life by living a sinless human life under the Old Testament Covenant -- and now offers it to whosoever believeth in Him.
Absolutely.
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:57 pm We will receive this gift when born again of the Spirit at the Second Coming.
Well, we'll receive it in full, but we have already received it. Spiritually -- of the Holy Spirit -- we have been born again, as both Paul and Peter are very clear. But when Jesus returns, in full. We HAVE BEEN saved and ARE BEING saved; BOTH are true. This is the now and the not yet of the Gospel.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #102

Post by Wootah »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:09 pm If Jesus is God, then He could not die, because God is immortal.
God is omnipotent. He can condescend from heaven to earth and be a man and experience what dying is like for a man.

How come that isn't registering for you?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #103

Post by myth-one.com »

Wootah wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:36 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:09 pm If Jesus is God, then He could not die, because God is immortal.
God is omnipotent. He can condescend from heaven to earth and be a man and experience what dying is like for a man.

How come that isn't registering for you?
You are correct.

I agree, Jesus was a man.

And Jesus was not God.

That is the only way that Jesus could fulfill His mission!

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #104

Post by onewithhim »

Wootah wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:36 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:09 pm If Jesus is God, then He could not die, because God is immortal.
God is omnipotent. He can condescend from heaven to earth and be a man and experience what dying is like for a man.

How come that isn't registering for you?
God is omnipotent ("Almighty; not limited in authority or power") but that doesn't mean that he can shrink himself down to the size of a man and come here to walk the earth. How can someone who created the universe do that?? Not only could the earth not contain him, but God could never die. And the scripture says that "God raised up Jesus." Are you getting God and Jesus confused here? (Acts 2:32) If God died, who was there to raise him up again?

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #105

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #105]

Ok ... would you argue God cannot physically enter his own creation?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #106

Post by PinSeeker »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:18 am God is omnipotent ("Almighty; not limited in authority or power") but that doesn't mean that he can shrink himself down to the size of a man and come here to walk the earth. How can someone who created the universe do that?
If God is omnipotent (and He certainly is; there is no disagreement here on that), then He is all-powerful, and that necessarily means He can do anything.
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:18 am Not only could the earth not contain him, but God could never die.
Right, the second death. But if God humbled Himself himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. and was in human form, He certainly could die the first, physical death appointed to all men. He became obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. He laid down His life, and then He took it up again (John 10:18).
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:18 am And the scripture says that "God raised up Jesus." Are you getting God and Jesus confused here? (Acts 2:32)
Right, and Jesus said He laid down His life and took it up again (John 10:18). So are those conflicting statements? Or are they basically the same statement because the Father and the Son are both the one true God, but two distinct persons?
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:18 am If God died, who was there to raise him up again?
Well He did it Himself. Did not Jesus say, as recorded by John (10:18), "For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #107

Post by onewithhim »

Wootah wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:52 am [Replying to onewithhim in post #105]

Ok ... would you argue God cannot physically enter his own creation?
That is right. If you made a bird house, could you enter inside it?

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #108

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #108]

Is there a link to a JW site that agrees with that please?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #109

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #20]

Jesus took it literally.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #110

Post by tam »

Wootah wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:19 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #20]

Jesus took it literally.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”
Yes, meaning if you do not forgive others, you will not be forgiven. By the measure you use, it will be measured against you. In the same way you judge others, you will be judged. (Matt 7:2)

It does not meant that if you waterboarded someone, God is going to waterboard you, of course!


Just that if you judge others, you will be judged. If you do not forgive others, you will not be forgiven.

Peace to you.

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