The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[Eloi]

(...) Many read scripture and what is salient are the passages than conflict with what they have been taught, or even seem to contradict other verses. When this happens there are several subsets of responses, not mutually exclusive:

1. They study more to resolve the apparent conflict.
2. Some shift their opinion to align with their new understanding
3. They may even change their denominational preference.
4. Some conclude "It is a mystery beyond man's feeble understanding," or they just accept the conflict and move on.
5. They conclude scripture has too many errors to be written by God, and thus has no authority.

There are probably more, with variations.

In any event, this is one reason why there are many denominations, schisms, faiths, and "infidels."

I like the way you resumed the point ... and you are so right. Actually, the Bible is not intended to be understood for everyone. The understanding of the truth depends mainly on the attitude of the person before those who bring them help so that they understand; it is a lesson repeated many times in Scripture.

Rom. 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”

2 Thes. 2:9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
... 10:40 “Whoever receives you receives me also, and whoever receives me receives also the One who sent me. 41 Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will get a prophet’s reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will get a righteous man’s reward. 42 And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water to drink because he is a disciple, I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward.”

John 13:20 Most truly I say to you, whoever receives anyone I send receives me also, and whoever receives me receives also the One who sent me.”

[PinSeeker]

The understanding of the truth depends mainly on the attitude of the person before those who bring them help so that they understand...

Oh, not at all. Scripture cannot be understood without God's Holy Spirit, Who is our Helper:

• "(the Father) will give (us) another Helper, to be with (us) forever, even the Spirit of truth, Whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him... the Helper, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in (Jesus's) name, He will teach (us) all things and bring to (our) remembrance all that (Jesus has) said to (us)." (John 14)

• "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 'For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?' But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Corinthians 2:14-16)

And where the Spirit goes depends solely on God and His sovereign purposes:

• "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:8)

Grace and peace to all.

[Diagoras]

I don’t see any one ‘side’ having definitive answers here.

Fair enough; of course that means you are in no position to say definitively which interpretation is true, including your own (if you have one). I cannot therefore see how you can imply that Jehovahs Witnesses are in error.

I am convinced what Jehovahs Witnesses believe is true because only they (in my personal opinion) have a clear understanding of why people go to heaven.

<bolding mine>

Your personal conviction (or indeed, anyone's) isn't enough to persuade me of the merits of any particular interpretation.

[JehovahsWitness]

Your personal conviction (or indeed, anyone's) isn't enough to persuade me of the merits of any particular interpretation.

Did I say I was attempting to persuade you? I am simply staing my position, based on my knowledge of scripture in line with the OP. I am completely unconcerned you are not persuaded and have no intention to change that.



JW

[Diagoras]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #74]

Fine by me. I'm merely pointing out that anyone's personal conviction isn't enough to provide a definitive answer. And further, that one's interpretation of Scripture can lead to a very different view from that of others.

[Diogenes]

Your personal conviction (or indeed, anyone's) isn't enough to persuade me of the merits of any particular interpretation.

Did I say I was attempting to persuade you? I am simply staing my position, based on my knowledge of scripture in line with the OP. I am completely unconcerned you are not persuaded and have no intention to change that.

Then why bother to answer?
"The Bible indicates that 144,000 people will be resurrected to heavenly life. (Revelation 7:4) "
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

I read this blog on the subject and I have to say this is the most confused, double minded contradictory hooey I've read this week.

Revelation 7 is clearer. It says a 'great multitude' will be saved. The 144,000 refers to the 12 tribes of the 'sons of Israel,' exactly 12,000 from each tribe. Pretty slick how those numbers work out so precisely. In a normal world you'd guess Asher'd have a few more, Gad a few less and so on. To come up with EXACTLY 12,000 for each tribe, now that's gotta be a almighty miracle!

[JehovahsWitness]

[...]I am completely unconcerned you are not persuaded and have no intention to change that.

Then why bother to answer?
"The Bible indicates that 144,000 people will be resurrected to heavenly life. (Revelation 7:4) "
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Because being familiar with their publications and organisation of Jehovahs Witnrsses for over 40 years, I wanted to contribute my views on their theology in line with the OP. The Jehovahs Witnesses believe that the number 144,000 in revelation refers to the number of people that go to heaven.






JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[Diagoras]

Biblically only "born again" (spirit anointed) baptised Christians are called to heaven. ie only those chosen by God and invited by Christ have that privelege. Revelation indicates the 12 faithful Apostles were the first to receive such an invitation and scriptures indicate the invitation subsequently went out to all first century Christians thereafter (Rev 21:14 , 1 Pet 2:9). Biblically, only God and Jesus can name them all.

<bolding mine>

Because being familiar with their publications and organisation of Jehovahs Witnrsses (sic) for over 40 years, I wanted to contribute my views on their theology in line with the OP.

I would certainly accede to your expertise in explaining and interpreting the 'publications and organisation of Jehovahs Witnesses', but in previous posts, you've referred to Revelations, and it's not clear to me whether you're additionally an expert in biblical interpretation per se, or whether you are simply offering the views of the Jehovahs Witnesses organisation in this regard.

In a related thread (C&A forum), I linked to a more scholarly article on Revelation which provides a different perspective:

viewtopic.php?p=1048246#p1048246

I don't expect anyone to alter their view after reading it, but it at least supports my position that Revelation can be and has been interpreted in many different ways throughout the ages.

[Eloi]

What kind of 'expertise' are you talking about?

A young child who is s Jehovah's Witness has more "expertise" than any theologian of the Christendom on explaining the Scriptures in a more consistent, reasonable and systemic way.

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't expect anyone to alter their view after reading it, but it at least supports my position that Revelation can be and has been interpreted in many different ways throughout the ages.

I did not disagree with you, Revelation, indeed the bible as a whole can and has been interpreted in many different ways, that is a given. I am simply presenting the interpretation that I (as one of Jehovah's Witnesses ) am personally convinced is accurate. No more not less.


JW