My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/
Is that correct?
There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/
Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?
The 144,000 in JW theology
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The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #1Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #81No miracle. In a normal world 144,000 men needed divided by 12 tribes = 12,000 men from each tribe.Diagoras wrote: ↑Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:28 pmI read this blog on the subject and I have to say this is the most confused, double minded contradictory hooey I've read this week.
Revelation 7 is clearer. It says a 'great multitude' will be saved. The 144,000 refers to the 12 tribes of the 'sons of Israel,' exactly 12,000 from each tribe. Pretty slick how those numbers work out so precisely. In a normal world you'd guess Asher'd have a few more, Gad a few less and so on. To come up with EXACTLY 12,000 for each tribe, now that's gotta be a almighty miracle!
The only possible problem would be if any one tribe contained less that 12,000 men.
jw.org wrote:The Bible indicates that 144,000 people will be resurrected to heavenly life. (Revelation 7:4)
Revelation 7:4 doesn't seem to say that the 144,000 will be resurrected to heavenly life. There is no mention of resurrection, heaven, or life.Revelation 7:4 wrote:And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Also, Jesus will return and rule the earth forever and ever and Christians born again of the Spirit will rule with Him -- on the earth.
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #82[Replying to myth-one.com in post #81]
Not a criticism of you - likely the fact that we have similar user names, but it was in fact Diogenes who you were quoting in the above post, not me.
Link to actual post.
Not a criticism of you - likely the fact that we have similar user names, but it was in fact Diogenes who you were quoting in the above post, not me.
Link to actual post.
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #83Did I say "Revelation 7:4 indicates" or did I say "The Bible" indicates? Jehovahs Witnesses take a wholistic approach to bible interpretation, meaning we base our understanding on the entire bible. We analyse every single passage in the bible and applying critical thinking skills come to a conclusion about any one given scripture. Revelation 7:4 is where we get the question (who are the 144,000?) the entire bible (Genesis to Revelation) is where we get the answer, regardless of when the passages where actually written, regardless of who they were written by and regardless whether or not the specific words in the passage in question are there.myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:09 pm
jw.org wrote:The Bible indicates that 144,000 people will be resurrected to heavenly life. (Revelation 7:4)Revelation 7:4 doesn't seem to say that the 144,000 will be resurrected to heavenly life.Revelation 7:4 wrote:And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
FURTHER READING: A key to understanding the bible
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102012416
Can scriptures be viewed as related even when the words in the passages vary?
viewtopic.php?p=1046649#p1046649
* bible interpretationTo learn more please see other posts related to...
THE BIBLE , HERMENEUTICS* and ... BEST TRANSLATION
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #84We Jehovahs Witnesses do believe Jesus will return and that he and born again Christians will rule the earth (not forever but for 1000 years only). We do NOT believe Jesus will ever leave his Father's side in heaven to live on earth. Nor, like some, do we believe Jesus will travel back and forth between heaven and earth like Satan did during the time of Job. We believe Jesus will forever more be with his Father in permanent unending residence in the heavens. (Argubly, if Jesus needs someone to literally come down from heaven to do something or relay a message Jesus has myriads of angels to command for that very purpose just as in bible times).myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:09 pm...Jesus will return and rule the earth forever and ever and Christians born again of the Spirit will rule with Him -- on the earth.
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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #85Jesus was the solution to the fault in the Old Testament Covenant between mankind and God. Under that covenant one had to remain without sin to gain everlasting life. But there was a fault in that covenant in that every man ever created had sinned. Thus no one had ever gained everlasting life under that covenant.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:24 amWe Jehovahs Witnesses do believe Jesus will return and that he and born again Christians will rule the earth (not forever but for 1000 years only). We do NOT believe Jesus will ever leave his Father's side in heaven to live on earth. Nor, like some, do we believe Jesus will travel back and forth between heaven and earth like Satan did during the time of Job. We believe Jesus will forever more be with his Father in permanent unending residence in the heavens. (Argubly, if Jesus needs someone to literally come down from heaven to do something or relay a message Jesus has myriads of angels to command for that very purpose just as in bible times).myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:09 pm...Jesus will return and rule the earth forever and ever and Christians born again of the Spirit will rule with Him -- on the earth.
To solve that problem, God the Word was temporarily made the flesh and blood, mortal physical human being, named Jesus Christ. Being a man, Jesus fell under the covenant between man and God as a possible heir. Indeed, He lived a sinless life, died the first death without sin, and is thus an heir to everlasting life under that covenant. In fact, He is the only human to qualify as an heir under that covenant.
But it was preordained that Jesus would not inherit His justly deserved inheritance, but offer it as a gift to every human who accepted Him as their Savior and Lord under the New Testament covenant.
Having accomplished His mission as a man, there is no longer any reason for The Word to exist as a man.
But that is how we know Jesus, so we continue using the name, although The Word would be more correct.
<====================================>
Having said all that, your statement above is basically correct. Jesus as The Word is omnipresent. He has no cause to travel back and forth or reside in any spot because He is always at every spot. But these spiritual bodied characteristics cannot now be understood by those in the physical world. We will not understand these mysteries until we are born again into the spiritual world.
I disagree that Jesus as The Word and believers will only rule the world for 1,000 years. The plan is that rulers of the world need everlasting life so they can rule forever. The 1,000 year millennium is the biblical day of rest.
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #86I'm sorry to say this, but you haven't been paying attention for years concerning the 144,000. It has been explained over and over again that 144,000 are chosen to go to heaven to rule with Christ, but the millions of JWs who are not going to heaven will be living on earth in paradise conditions forever. They will not be annihilated. Only incorrigibly wicked people and spirit beings will be annihilated.Wootah wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:02 pm My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/
Is that correct?
There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/
Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #87Wasn't it just said that all those people of old will be resurrected back to life on Earth? (And they were Jehovah's Witnesses. See Isaiah 43:10 and Revelation 1:5.) But many people who were not worshippers of Jehovah will be resurrected also. Many will be given a chance to learn what they did not learn while they were previously alive.Revelations won wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:52 pm To whom it may concern,
It should be remembered that the interpretation of the JW's is a private interpretation and should be considered as such....
What about Abraham, Issac and Jacob and their descendants as well as all of the prophets in the Old and New Testaments? They did not belong to the JW church.
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #88Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #89One cannot "aim" to be one of the 144,000; as if it is not a goal to be achieved through determined effort or personal enlightenment. One is chosen by God or not. The goal / aim of a Christian (or any servant of God) should be to remain faithful, how that faith is rewarded is in God's own hands.Wootah wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:41 am [Replying to onewithhim in post #86]
That's why I ask. Are you aiming to be in the 144,000?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology
Post #90No, I am not, nor ever will be, one of the 144,000. I am very happy to have the hope of living forever on the earth in paradise conditions.Wootah wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:41 am [Replying to onewithhim in post #86]
That's why I ask. Are you aiming to be in the 144,000?