Is death ... the end?

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Wootah
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Is death ... the end?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

There seems to be some disagreement about what happens when we die.

Let's see what the Bible says:
https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/2-17.htm
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Did Adam and Eve die? Yes or No. So does God not know what death is or are you disagreeing with God?
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-1.htm
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Non Christians are regarded as dead but they all seem to be walking around (They had better get grafted in).

https://biblehub.com/john/11-26.htm
and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 11 deserves special mention. Jesus says to Martha and corrects her when she thinks Lazarus will rise on the last day. Not so Martha Jesus says, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Jesus says we shall never die and admonishes Mary for thinking Lazarus will only rise on the last day. So either Jesus is a liar or we shall never die.

You know just to continue a theme, where Jesus dies on the cross and the curtain is torn, that is in effect no more separation between man and God. Symbolically when we pass through the curtain of death, we will find that we are more alive than ever, with God forever.

I really think many are preaching death still has a hold on Christians, still has a sting to it.

It's a serious subject. I strongly think people are making Jesus out to be a liar who disagree, I say that to highlight the implications and encourage civility in such a charged topic :).

Is death ... the end?

What is death and what does it mean according to the Bible?
Last edited by Wootah on Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #41

Post by William »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #40]
OK, what did Jesus say about his immortality? What did he say about humans' immortality?
Perhaps he said nothing about those things?
Well, then, perhaps he knew we would get that information from his disciples after he went back to heaven.
Why would he leave that task to others, when he at least knew of such things, having experience of his Fathers Kingdom?

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #42

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:37 pm
Why would he [ Jesus] leave that task to others, when he at least knew of such things, having experience of his Fathers Kingdom?
Perhaps because he knew his listeners were not ready to hear the information at the time.


JOHN 16:12 - GOD'S WORD® Translation

"I have a lot more to tell you, but that would be too much for you now.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #43

Post by William »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #42]
Perhaps because he knew his listeners were not ready to hear the information at the time.
So you're reasoning that 'perhaps' Jesus felt that the information about his or anyone else's immortality, would be "too much information for his listeners to hear" so he left that for others to tell - on his behalf - after he had gone and could no longer speak for himself?

Are you saying then, that the rule of thumb is inappropriate?

Rule of thumb re scriptural statements about biblical Jesus.

IF;
any such statement contradicts or is otherwise inconsistent with what biblical Jesus stated about himself,
THEN;
regardless that it is 'in the bible', biblical Jesus' statements about himself, take precedence over any other biblical statements about him.


Rule of Thumb = a broadly accurate guide or principle, based on practice rather than theory.

Take Precedence = to be more important (than something else)

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #44

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:35 pm ... what did Jesus say about himself in regard to being immortal. And what did he say about others in regard to being immortal?
William wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:02 am
IF;
any such statement contradicts or is otherwise inconsistent with what biblical Jesus stated about himself,

THEN;
... Jesus' statements about himself, take precedence over any other biblical statements about him.
Nothing later revealed in inspired Christian Greek scripture contradicts or is otherwise inconsistent with the teachings of Christ. In your hypothetical scenerio (as in reality), I believe Jesus statements about himself would naturally take precedence over any other statements about him.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #45

Post by onewithhim »

William wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:37 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #40]
OK, what did Jesus say about his immortality? What did he say about humans' immortality?
Perhaps he said nothing about those things?
Well, then, perhaps he knew we would get that information from his disciples after he went back to heaven.
Why would he leave that task to others, when he at least knew of such things, having experience of his Fathers Kingdom?
That's like saying why didn't he tell them about how they should comb their hair or brush their teeth? You assume he did not because it's not written down? Or maybe he did not tell them. So you would assume that they didn't know how to do it themselves? In other words, you are ASSUMING a lot because certain things are not down in writing.

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #46

Post by William »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #44]
Nothing later revealed in inspired Christian Greek scripture contradicts or is otherwise inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.
In part, that is what the idea of the rule of thumb re scriptural statements about biblical Jesus, helps one investigate.
Certainly your claim above is unsupported, and there is evidence to support that those who interpret "inspired Christian Greek scripture" contradict one another and through that, form offshoots from the main branch which originally brought these scriptures into the world, a process itself which doesn't appear consistent with what biblical Jesus taught his followers re how they should be with one another...

As to what biblical Jesus say's about death;

I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

And;

The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Also;
He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
I believe Jesus statements about himself would naturally take precedence over any other statements about him.
Does this belief also include statements biblical Jesus makes about the subject of life and death - that these too - would naturally take precedence over any other statements about life and death made by other biblical personalities?

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #47

Post by William »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #45]
That's like saying why didn't he tell them about how they should comb their hair or brush their teeth?
So you are arguing that the subject "is Death The End?" is no more important than the subject of 'how hair should be combed" and "how teeth should be brushed"?

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #48

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:22 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #44]
Nothing later revealed in inspired Christian Greek scripture contradicts or is otherwise inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.
...there is evidence to support that those who interpret "inspired Christian Greek scripture" contradict one another
So? So what? I dont believe I made a comment about varous interpretations. How does that address my point about the contents of Scripture?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is death ... the end

Post #49

Post by onewithhim »

William wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #45]
That's like saying why didn't he tell them about how they should comb their hair or brush their teeth?
So you are arguing that the subject "is Death The End?" is no more important than the subject of 'how hair should be combed" and "how teeth should be brushed"?
No, that's not what I am arguing.

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Re: Is death ... the end?

Post #50

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

Wootah wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:00 am There seems to be some disagreement about what happens when we die.

Let's see what the Bible says:
https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/2-17.htm
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Did Adam and Eve die? Yes or No. So does God not know what death is or are you disagreeing with God?
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-1.htm
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Non Christians are regarded as dead but they all seem to be walking around (They had better get grafted in).

https://biblehub.com/john/11-26.htm
and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 11 deserves special mention. Jesus says to Martha and corrects her when she thinks Lazarus will rise on the last day. Not so Martha Jesus says, I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Jesus says we shall never die and admonishes Mary for thinking Lazarus will only rise on the last day. So either Jesus is a liar or we shall never die.

You know just to continue a theme, where Jesus dies on the cross and the curtain is torn, that is in effect no more separation between man and God. Symbolically when we pass through the curtain of death, we will find that we are more alive than ever, with God forever.

I really think many are preaching death still has a hold on Christians, still has a sting to it.

It's a serious subject. I strongly think people are making Jesus out to be a liar who disagree, I say that to highlight the implications and encourage civility in such a charged topic :).

Is death ... the end?

What is death and what does it mean according to the Bible?
People who don't believe in the Bible, would like to know about what the Bible says about any given topic.

Blows my mind.
Venni Vetti Vecci!!

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