The Atonement

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Revelations won
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The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

cms

Re: The Atonement

Post #101

Post by cms »

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:05 am Where did the woman tell Adam he was naked?

Where did the serpent tell Eve she was naked?

Not that's it's any big deal -- just curious.
Myth one, When God created Adam and Eve, they were made in His image and given rule over the earth. They were gods(rulers).

Genesis 3:5 " God knows in the day that you eat of it, you will be as gods, knowing good and evil."
According to the serpent, they weren't gods.
In other words, he's saying they're naked ( unqualified, unadorned, uncivilized, flagrant) unless they eat the fruit. Eve then passed this on to Adam.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #102

Post by myth-one.com »

cms wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:06 am
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:05 am Where did the woman tell Adam he was naked?

Where did the serpent tell Eve she was naked?

Not that's it's any big deal -- just curious.
Myth one, When God created Adam and Eve, they were made in His image and given rule over the earth. They were gods(rulers).

Genesis 3:5 " God knows in the day that you eat of it, you will be as gods, knowing good and evil."
According to the serpent, they weren't gods.
In other words, he's saying they're naked ( unqualified, unadorned, uncivilized, flagrant)his on to Adam.
So they were created as gods which did not even know they were naked?

Are all gods created unqualified, unadorned, uncivilized, and flagrant?
Remember Uvalde!

cms

Re: The Atonement

Post #103

Post by cms »

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:33 am So they were created as gods which did not even know they were naked?

Are all gods created unqualified, unadorned, uncivilized, and flagrant?
Myth one, The serpent was lying to them. They weren't "naked". That's why God asked the question:"Who told you that you were naked?"

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Re: The Atonement

Post #104

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:05 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:16 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:17 pm
cms wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:42 am
myth-one.com wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:39 pm The question was asked to see if they would accept responsibility.
Myth one, there was more than one question. "Who told you that you were naked?"
Adam's answer: The woman
Eve's answer: the serpent
Where did the woman tell Adam he was naked?

Where did the serpent tell Eve she was naked?

Not that's it's any big deal -- just curious.
This is the scenario:

Jehovah said, "'Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I commanded you not to eat?' The man said: 'The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, so I ate.' Jehovah God then said to the woman: 'What is this you have done?' The woman replied: 'The serpent deceived me, so I ate.'" (Genesis 3:11-13)

Nothing about who told them they were naked.

I think that when they ate the fruit they realized something had changed; nobody needed to tell them. They sensed that they had lost Jehovah's favor and they were in big trouble.
They were naked before eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

They were naked after eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Their appearance was the same before and after eating the forbidden fruit.
Yes....That's why I said that the thing that changed was their innate understanding after they ate the fruit was that their relationship with Jehovah had changed and they were not in his favor any longer.

They knew good from evil before they ate the fruit. Otherwise Jehovah would not have held them accountable for disobeying Him. But they deliberately rebelled against Him...deliberately. They wanted to make their own rules as to what was good or bad. They wanted independance from Jehovah. They made themselves gods.

.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #105

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:44 am
They knew good from evil before they ate the fruit. Otherwise Jehovah would not have held them accountable for disobeying Him. But they deliberately rebelled against Him...deliberately. They wanted to make their own rules as to what was good or bad. They wanted independance from Jehovah. They made themselves gods.

.
No, they did not know good from evil in general before eating the forbidden fruit.

What they had was one commandment, and the consequences of obeying or disobeying that one commandment of God.

<===============================================>
Genesis 2:16-17 wrote:And the Lord God commanded the man saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Notice that God did not suggest or recommend that man not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He commanded it! Since man was not created with the knowledge of good and evil he could not sin until God gave him this first commandment. What exactly is sin? Sin is the transgression of the commandments of God which are also called the law:
I John 3:4 wrote:Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
So sin is transgression of the law. But what if there is no law? Then there is no sin:
Romans 5:13 wrote:For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
That is, sinful acts could be committed before the laws were given and understood. However, sins are not imputed against us until by God's law we recognize the act as a sin. Originally, man did not know good from evil as he had no law.

At this point, man has one, and only one, law or commandment: do not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil! Man was now set up to commit one, and only one sin. It was the only commandment he knew, and thus the only one he could violate. Satan saw to it that mankind did indeed violate this first commandment that God gave them.

When Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil both did immediately know right from wrong. That part of Satan's statement was true as we see below:
Genesis 3:7 wrote:And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


They had become as gods in that they recognized good and evil. At this point there is only one difference remaining between man and the angels. That difference is that men have mortal, physical bodies whereas angels have immortal, spiritual bodies.

<==================================================>

From this point forward, the Bible is about man's struggle to gain that remaining difference, so as to become equal unto the angels.
Remember Uvalde!

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Re: The Atonement

Post #106

Post by Revelations won »

Dear myth-one.com,

You said: "They were naked before eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

They were naked after eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Their appearance was the same before and after eating the forbidden fruit.

<=====================================>

But they knew good from evil after eating the forbidden fruit.

They then hid from God because they were naked.

They wouldn't hid from God if they had done good.

The implication is that nakedness is evil.

Babies are born naked.

Are they thus born into sin?"

You brought out a very good point when you stated "But they knew good from evil after eating the forbidden fruit."

It is obvious that in their innocence they clearly had no experience or understanding the scope of their decision to eat of of the fruit for the eyes of their understanding were not yet opened. As you pointed out they by their experience only knew good from evil after they partook of the fruit.

Further it is very clear that there was no evil or shame in the man and his wife be cause of their nakedness before each other. Clearly, after their eyes were opened, then they saw that it was inappropriate to be naked before others.


sorry, but I had to laugh when you falsely suggest babies are born in sin. After all God commanded Adam and Eve multiply and replenish the earth. So are you suggesting babies should be born wearing a diving suit or swimming suit???

Best regards,
RW

cms

Re: The Atonement

Post #107

Post by cms »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:47 pm At this point, man has one, and only one, law or commandment: do not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil!
I think you're missing some important details of the story. The first commandment: "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it."

All mankind, including Adam and Eve, are both physical and spiritual. "Man shall not live by bread alone." So, this commandment involves producing some spiritual fruit as well. Apparently, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a tree that didn't bear good fruit. ( See the New Testament on the tree that bears bad fruit).
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:47 pm When Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil both did immediately know right from wrong. That part of Satan's statement was true as we see below:
Genesis 3:7 wrote:
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
A life that is led by the Spirit vs. a life that focuses on the material, can look quite different. They were appointed by God to be lords (gods) of the earth. But, according to the serpent they weren't gods because they "naked" -meaning unadorned, unqualified, uncivilized. In other words, they didn't physically look and act like gods. They had none of the status symbols- material wealth, fancy clothes etc.etc.

Scripture says that the serpent was quite cunning. So, the knowledge of good and evil that he was offering to Adam and Eve wasn't the wisdom of God. It was "street smarts." Noting that Adam and Eve were dressed in fig leaves, they were living the high life as the fig leaf represents wealth and prosperity.
But Mark 11:13-14 says, "And seeing a fig tree from afar having leaves, he came , if haply he might find anything on it. but when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves." Jesus cursed it because it bore no fruit.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #108

Post by myth-one.com »

cms wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:54 am
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:47 pm At this point, man has one, and only one, law or commandment: do not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil!
I think you're missing some important details of the story. The first commandment: "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it."

All mankind, including Adam and Eve, are both physical and spiritual. "Man shall not live by bread alone." So, this commandment involves producing some spiritual fruit as well. Apparently, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a tree that didn't bear good fruit. ( See the New Testament on the tree that bears bad fruit).
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:47 pm When Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil both did immediately know right from wrong. That part of Satan's statement was true as we see below:
Genesis 3:7 wrote:
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
A life that is led by the Spirit vs. a life that focuses on the material, can look quite different. They were appointed by God to be lords (gods) of the earth. But, according to the serpent they weren't gods because they "naked" -meaning unadorned, unqualified, uncivilized. In other words, they didn't physically look and act like gods. They had none of the status symbols- material wealth, fancy clothes etc.etc.

Scripture says that the serpent was quite cunning. So, the knowledge of good and evil that he was offering to Adam and Eve wasn't the wisdom of God. It was "street smarts." Noting that Adam and Eve were dressed in fig leaves, they were living the high life as the fig leaf represents wealth and prosperity.
But Mark 11:13-14 says, "And seeing a fig tree from afar having leaves, he came , if haply he might find anything on it. but when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves." Jesus cursed it because it bore no fruit.
I can't find where God commanded mankind to be fruitful, etc.

God offered both trees to mankind, and commanded mankind to not eat from the tree of knowledge.

Satan offered Adam & Eve nothing.

Basically, man was offered to paths. They could do things as God suggested or commanded, or they could choose to make their own decisions.

They chose to make their own decisions.

Now, mankind is about to complete the 6,000 years of making his own decisions.

Here is what man is on the earth to learn:
Ecclesiastes 12:13 wrote:Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
We learn this by trying our way and failing.
Remember Uvalde!

cms

Re: The Atonement

Post #109

Post by cms »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:45 pm I can't find where God commanded mankind to be fruitful, etc.
???? Okay then. End of discussion.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #110

Post by myth-one.com »

cms wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:28 am
myth-one.com wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:45 pm I can't find where God commanded mankind to be fruitful, etc.
???? Okay then. End of discussion.
Genesis 1:28 wrote:And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
This is the reason man was created, it is the description of our job assignment.
Genesis 1:26 wrote:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Man was created to eventually replace the angels who fail at this job.
Remember Uvalde!

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