The 144,000 in JW theology

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The 144,000 in JW theology

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Post by Wootah »

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology

Post #561

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #557]
You ask where God's purpose for the earth is stated in the Bible. I think it has been brought out many times, but here it is again:

"God blessed them [Adam & Eve] and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.'"(Genesis 1:28) And: "Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15)

"As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)

"For this is what Jehovah says, the Creator of the heavens, the true God, the One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmlu established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: 'I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.'" (Isaiah 45:18)

Do these show Jehovah's purpose for the earth? I think so.

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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology

Post #562

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:13 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #557]
You ask where God's purpose for the earth is stated in the Bible. I think it has been brought out many times, but here it is again:

"God blessed them [Adam & Eve] and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.'"(Genesis 1:28) And: "Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15)

"As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)

"For this is what Jehovah says, the Creator of the heavens, the true God, the One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmlu established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: 'I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.'" (Isaiah 45:18)

Do these show Jehovah's purpose for the earth? I think so.
No, I don't think so.

Those three passages do not show God's ultimate purpose for the earth, let alone for those who have been, are now, or will be, in this life, its human inhabitants.

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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology

Post #563

Post by onewithhim »

Checkpoint wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 1:56 am
onewithhim wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:13 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #557]
You ask where God's purpose for the earth is stated in the Bible. I think it has been brought out many times, but here it is again:

"God blessed them [Adam & Eve] and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.'"(Genesis 1:28) And: "Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15)

"As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)

"For this is what Jehovah says, the Creator of the heavens, the true God, the One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmlu established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: 'I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.'" (Isaiah 45:18)

Do these show Jehovah's purpose for the earth? I think so.
No, I don't think so.

Those three passages do not show God's ultimate purpose for the earth, let alone for those who have been, are now, or will be, in this life, its human inhabitants.
The issue was...what was God's ORIGINAL purpose for the earth. I have shown what it was. There is no reason at all to think that He changed His mind. Where do you see that He changed His mind? Throughout the Scriptures there are references to the earth becoming a Paradise with Jesus ruling over mankind. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Isaiah 65:21-25; Micah 4:4)


.

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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology

Post #564

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:37 am
Checkpoint wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 1:56 am
onewithhim wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:13 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #557]
You ask where God's purpose for the earth is stated in the Bible. I think it has been brought out many times, but here it is again:

"God blessed them [Adam & Eve] and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.'"(Genesis 1:28) And: "Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15)

"As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, but the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)



"For this is what Jehovah says, the Creator of the heavens, the true God, the One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmlu established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: 'I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.'" (Isaiah 45:18)

Do these show Jehovah's purpose for the earth? I think so.
No, I don't think so.

Those three passages do not show God's ultimate purpose for the earth, let alone for those who have been, are now, or will be, in this life, its human inhabitants.
The issue was...what was God's ORIGINAL purpose for the earth. I have shown what it was. There is no reason at all to think that He changed His mind. Where do you see that He changed His mind? Throughout the Scriptures there are references to the earth becoming a Paradise with Jesus ruling over mankind. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Isaiah 65:21-25; Micah 4:4
Fair enough, as far as it goes.

Have you noticed all the Scriptures you have referred to are from the Old Testament? Well, I have.

Have you noticed what you used referred to planet earth, and what is on it, which are all physical things? Well, I have.

Where is the Kingdom gospel and the New Covenant in your posts to me on this subject, onewithhim? God's original purpose has not changed or been compromised.

It is just that His thoughts and ways are not ours, and we humans can easily fail to understand where He is going and His ways of getting there.

The disciples are a prime example of this.

So, lift up your eyes!

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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology

Post #565

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #559]
Our understanding of the Scriptures is unique, that is true. The reason is that we do not have a "theology" as you call it, but rather we thoroughly study the Scriptures and if we understand that the previous way of interpreting was incorrect, then we correct our way of understanding. It is clear that this does not concern any of the more than 8 million Witnesses around the world, but without a doubt we all have an active participation in the matter, since if we have doubts we raise them in the correct way and to the correct people, and we don't go around dividing the congregation nor are we going to ask those whom you accept as theologians; otherwise we would be part of Christendom, like you.
Yes, I understand that is how JWs see things, and operate accordingly.

Whatever "Christendom is, it is not a term I use or identify with.

I am no theologian either, and do not follow or identify with any specific view, whether it is broad or traditional or otherwise.

I am no more than, and no less than, a Bible student. One that is well aware of how little I know or understand of things of the Spirit.

According to your own theology, all these people are kings and priests, but not any of us?
Whaat??
.
Last edited by Checkpoint on Mon May 23, 2022 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology

Post #566

Post by Tcg »

Eloi wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:40 am ...otherwise we would be part of Christendom, like you.
Actually, JWs are. Christendom is described as: "the worldwide body or society of Christians." The JWs are without a doubt simply one of many denominations that fit into this group.


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Re: The 144,000 in JW theology

Post #567

Post by Eloi »

Tcg wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 12:22 am
Eloi wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:40 am ...otherwise we would be part of Christendom, like you.
Actually, JWs are. Christendom is described as: "the worldwide body or society of Christians." The JWs are without a doubt simply one of many denominations that fit into this group.


Tcg
That is your opinion ... The truth is totally different:

we, Jehovah's Witnesses, are very far from common beliefs and practices of the religions of Christendom, like such as their association with the political institutions of the world, their involvement in the conflicts of this system of things, their meddling in social affairs, following the conventions of non-believers instead of adhering to the high principles of the Bible , etc., when they should be dealing with less secular and more spiritual matters, such as teaching people that the only solution to human problems is the kingdom of God that is about to replace human systems of government, and teaching people how they can survive the destruction of this current system of things and inherit those promises from God.

You already know what some of the differences are between Christendom as a group of world religions, and the Jehovah's Witnesses ... but this is not the thread to discuss that matter.

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