The Atonement

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Revelations won
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The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #461

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:23 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:07 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:49 pm By it, He Justified Many !

This means that by His Death, many shall be accounted Righteous, or Justified.
How does that work?
Read the post in its entirety. Also if you have been reading my previous posts you should already know the answer to that question.
I've asked the question before, but you have no answer.

<============ Here is the biblical explanation again. ==============>

One's first death is appointed to all mankind.

Jesus was a man. So Christians will not be saved because He died, as the first death is appointed to all mankind!

Christians will be saved because Jesus gives them everlasting life!

The everlasting life He gives us is the one He qualified for by living a sinless life under the Old Testament Covenant between God and man. He was the only man to ever qualify for everlasting life under that covenant.

Once Christians are born again of the Spirit as everlasting spiritual beings at the Second Coming, we are saved from ever dying again.

We are saved because Jesus gives His inheritance of everlasting life to us! That saves us from any second death because we are immortal and can no longer die.

Do you see how completely logical that is?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #462

Post by Brightfame52 »

Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

For all those Christ died for, by that His Death, He has finished their Transgressions, and has made an end to their sins, as to all the legal guilt it can bring against them in the Judgment, and He hath brought in to them and imputed to them Everlasting Righteousness, and they shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and as the stars for ever and ever.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #463

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:21 pm Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

For all those Christ died for, by that His Death, He has finished their Transgressions, and has made an end to their sins, as to all the legal guilt it can bring against them in the Judgment, and He hath brought in to them and imputed to them Everlasting Righteousness, and they shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and as the stars for ever and ever.
Christ died because He was a human, and all humans die. That is not what saves us.

We are saved by accepting the gift of eternal life from God through Jesus Christ:

Romans 6:23 wrote:For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #464

Post by Revelations won »

To all responding parties,

My OP on this topic is :

“To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW”

We should remember that the atonement is a gift from God our savior. It is not forced on us. We as individuals have the God given agency to accept or reject it. The atonement is an absolutely part of God’s eternal plan of redemption , salvation and exaltation for all of his children.

We should remember that we as sinful mortals we are incapable of atoning for our sins or for others sins.

As I understand it, the atonement required and infinite and atoning sacrifice that could only be provided by the “lamb of God without blemish and without spot. The only person that could qualify for this assignment was the sinless and only begotten in the flesh son of God even Jesus the Christ.

Now this raises a question. Did his suffering on the cross alone qualify to meet this criteria?

After all the Romans nailed many others on the cross such as those also crucified be side him.

We must remember that they also suffered in like manner?

When carefully examined, we should observe that there was much more to his agony and suffering above and beyond that which he suffered on the cross.

Is it possible that his greatest suffering was in the garden wherein in the greatest agony, he prayed unto the Father that “he might not partake of this bitter cup, nevertheless, not as I will, but according to the will of the Father”. Therein was his most agonizing suffering and submission to the Father’s will performed. The scripture states “That he sweat as it were great drops of blood”.

I would ask the question, how intense would one’s agony and suffering be that he would sweat and bleed at every pore to atone for the sins of the world?

In addition to this agonizing suffering in the garden, he was whipped or beaten and had a crown of painful thorns brutally mashed onto his head.

Next he was nailed to the cross to initiate this final phase of the atonement.

God the Father clearly knew and understood that his only begotten son in the flesh must needs face the fulfillment of this great and last sacrifice portion of the atonement alone! As the scripture states he withdrew his spirit from him in this greatest hour of agony. Herein Jesus the Christ not only suffered the agony of the cross, but the overwhelming resurgence of his agony in the garden added to that suffering immensely! All this combined was more than his body and heart could endure. He died from a broken heart.

The above is my take regarding the atonement of Jesus the Christ.

For a deeper understanding of the mighty atonement one might consider this testimony of the risen Lord:

“ Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I asmite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your bsufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
For behold, I, God, have asuffered these things for all, that they bmight not suffer if they would crepent;
But if they would not repent they must asuffer even as I;
Which asuffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might bnot drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and afinished my preparations unto the children of men.”

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #465

Post by myth-one.com »

Revelations won wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:26 am We should remember that the atonement is a gift from God our savior. It is not forced on us. We as individuals have the God given agency to accept or reject it.

The atonement is an absolutely part of God’s eternal plan of redemption , salvation and exaltation for all of his children.
The wages of sin is death. And prior to the death of Jesus, sins we committed had to be forgiven or somehow atoned for, to escape their consequence of death.

But that is no longer the case. All one has to do now to escape the wages of their sins is to believe in Jesus as their Savior.

So unless believing in Jesus is synonymous with atonement, then atonement is no longer relevant.
Revelations won wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:26 am As I understand it, the atonement required an infinite and atoning sacrifice that could only be provided by the “lamb of God without blemish and without spot. The only person that could qualify for this assignment was the sinless and only begotten in the flesh son of God even Jesus the Christ.
The “lamb of God without blemish and without spot" was the only human to ever qualify for everlasting life under the original covenant between God and mankind. The wages of sin is death, but He never sinned, thus He is the only heir to everlasting life under that covenant -- as every other human had sinned. His inheritance of everlasting life then becomes the gift of God offered to those who believeth in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant.
Revelations won wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:26 am Now this raises a question. Did his suffering on the cross alone qualify to meet this criteria?
The wages of our sin is death -- and not contingent upon the amount of suffering which might cause that death.

If Jesus had died in His sleep, He would still have ended a sinless life, and that is the root of our salvation. It allowed for fixing the "fault" in the original testament, it opened salvation to all the world, and made the requirement for gaining salvation something that common mankind could attain. That one requirement is believing in Jesus as one's Savior by accepting the gift of everlasting life Jesus earned under the original testament.

We are not saved because Jesus paid the wages for our sins. We are saved by accepting the gift from God of everlasting life -- as you mentioned above.

The wages of sin is death, but believers accept the gift of everlasting life offered by God through Jesus Christ.

Thus death no longer applies to believers. In one word it's -- salvation.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #466

Post by Brightfame52 »

It Guarantee's Repentance and Remission of sins !

Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The Death of the True Lord Jesus Christ guarantees, for all whom He died and rose again, both Repentance and Remission of their sins. His Resurrection not only gave evidence of their Justification before God Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

But it also ensures their repentance and remission or forgiveness of sin Acts 5:31

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

He is not your Saviour if He has not given you Repentance ! He is the Resurrected, Exalted, Prince and Saviour, To give [ apply or communicate] Repentance and forgiveness of sins to all for whom He died, which is restricted to a elect people that is called Israel. Every sinner that Truly Repents only gives evidence of Christ's Exaltation and He being their Saviour. Their repentance gives occasion for Joy in Heaven Lk 15:7,10

7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

10Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

This is Christ's Joy in seeing the successful accomplishment and results of His suffering and Death for all He substituted for Heb 12:2

2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In other words, every time a sinner repents, its a credit to Christ's Cross Work on their Behalf , and He gets Joy from it , full satisfaction, Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

The English word Joy means:

the emotion of great delight or happiness caused by something exceptionally good or satisfying

His Joy is that satisfaction He See's in what all His Hard Work accomplished for them He suffered and died for, it brought them back to God , which was the Design of His Death anyway:

1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

He was Successful ! 6

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Re: The Atonement

Post #467

Post by myth-one.com »

[Replying to Brightfame52 in post #466]

If a person in our generation lived a sinless human life, and never had any sin imputed against him or her, would they live forever if they never believed in Jesus?

Yes or no?


<=================== :?: ====================>

You seem somewhat hesitant to answer the question.

Here is a verse of the Bible which should help you discover the answer:


John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

According to John 3:16, what happens to sinless humans who do not believe in Jesus?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #468

Post by Brightfame52 »

Christ promised success out of His Death !

The Antichrist is a failure, However the True Christ made a Promise per Jn 12:24-33

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

28Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

29The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33This he said, signifying what death he should die.

In verse 24 Christ was identifying Himself as that corn of wheat, that was about to die. We now this because of vs 33

Now He says, if that corn of wheat shall die, again speaking of His Death that He is to die, He says it brings forth much fruit !

What is Fruit in this context ? Is it apples and oranges ? No its not, the word fruit here is the greek word karpos and means:

fruit

a) the fruit of the trees, vines, of the fields

b) the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

Jesus meaning is His Progeny, or Offspring [Spiritually of course], His Posterity, shall be brought forth if He dies.

The word bring forth [pherō] means to produce, Jesus is saying that out of His death He shall produce Life, a posterity.

The word fruit also means:

that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result

Christ's Death will produce an effect, results, it will bring forth an Offspring, Life, and this Offspring will serve Him. Remember the psalmist speaks of a Offspring that shall serve Him Ps 22:30

30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

Jesus talks about those that serve Him in Jn 12:26

26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Jesus is alluding to the Effects of His Death as the corn of wheat, it will produce a Offspring, a progeny that SHALL SERVE HIM Per Ps 22:30

And it is this Offspring that Jesus means in Jn 12:32. The all here that shall be drawn to Him because of His Being Lifted up or as vs 24 states it, fall into the ground and die, they all shall come to Him to Serve Him..Their coming is denoting their conversion to Him, this is the Success that He promised out of His Death.

His Death actually gives Life[Spiritual] to the World Jn 6:33

33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

This of course is the World of His Seed !

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Re: The Atonement

Post #469

Post by Brightfame52 »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #467]

It Guarantee's Repentance and Remission of sins ! Did you know that about Christs Atonement ?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #470

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:40 am [Replying to myth-one.com in post #467]

It Guarantee's Repentance and Remission of sins ! Did you know that about Christs Atonement ?
And what does Repentence and Remission of sins gain us, as we are no longer under the law:
Romans 6:14 wrote:For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

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