Should Christians keep the law?

[otseng]

From the thread Keeping the commandments:

Do you keep the law?

Questions for debate:
Should Christians keep the law?
If so, how much of the laws should we keep?

[2timothy316]

As far as Moses laws, Noah laws, etc... I am actually a firm believer in the Ten Commandments (which were supposedly written by God)...

I cant think of any commandments it would be ok to break... I try to live by those laws... I think the Ten Commandments may be the only laws, that i might be able to uphold (to the best of my ability)...

The Bible actually says the Ten Commandments are summed up in two commandments.
You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: You must love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets. - Matthew 22:39

Jesus was quoting the Law Code in Leviticus 19:18. "You must not take vengeance nor hold a grudge against the sons of your people, and you must love your fellow man as yourself. I am Jehovah." and Deut 6:5, "You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength."

[Tart]

As far as Moses laws, Noah laws, etc... I am actually a firm believer in the Ten Commandments (which were supposedly written by God)...

I cant think of any commandments it would be ok to break... I try to live by those laws... I think the Ten Commandments may be the only laws, that i might be able to uphold (to the best of my ability)...

The Bible actually says the Ten Commandments are summed up in two commandments.
You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: You must love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets. - Matthew 22:39

Jesus was quoting the Law Code in Leviticus 19:18. "You must not take vengeance nor hold a grudge against the sons of your people, and you must love your fellow man as yourself. I am Jehovah." and Deut 6:5, "You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength."

So are you saying the Ten Commandments should invalid in our time.. or something?

[2timothy316]

As far as Moses laws, Noah laws, etc... I am actually a firm believer in the Ten Commandments (which were supposedly written by God)...

I cant think of any commandments it would be ok to break... I try to live by those laws... I think the Ten Commandments may be the only laws, that i might be able to uphold (to the best of my ability)...

The Bible actually says the Ten Commandments are summed up in two commandments.
You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: You must love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets. - Matthew 22:39

Jesus was quoting the Law Code in Leviticus 19:18. "You must not take vengeance nor hold a grudge against the sons of your people, and you must love your fellow man as yourself. I am Jehovah." and Deut 6:5, "You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength."

So are you saying the Ten Commandments should invalid in our time.. or something?

They are not a curse like the used to be. Under the Law Code breaking the ten commandments meant a person was but to death. The punishment is not what we are under anymore. Yet are we still expected to not kill or steal, and we are expected to honor father and mother to the best of our ability? Yes, as that would be loving our fellow man.

The only commandment from the 10 commandments that doesn't effect those under the Law of the Christ is the sabbath. After the death of Jesus, Christians are no longer required to keep the sabbath.

[Tart]

Like im just trying to get what you are saying, what you believe, what you disagree with (in my post.... if you do)....


If the Law is abolished... Like, we dont believe it is ok to kill people (for example)... No one believes that it is ok to kill people (unless your a psycho, i guess)... right?


Is it becuase of your theology, that you might suggest these laws are no longer valid? Apologetic for atheist critics?

(edit, i wrote this before i saw the post above)

[ttruscott]

The moral and ethical law. Not the ceremonial law, and not the ritual purity laws which Jesus flouted as being needlessly divisive. (Healing lepers and touching other outcasts and "untouchables")

But keep the law for what purpose? For forgiveness? Salvation? Community or tribal cohesion? Or to do the will of God?

Paul denied that the laws of sacrifice could provide salvation from sin. He was not against the moral law.

Hebrews 10:4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Hebrews 9:12 He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

People before legal niceties:
1 Corinthians 8 is clear that love for others surplants our knowledge that idols are nothing and so the food offered to them has no power over us, just like Jesus put people above the law when the apostles were found shucking corn on the Sabbath.

[Tart]

As far as Moses laws, Noah laws, etc... I am actually a firm believer in the Ten Commandments (which were supposedly written by God)...

I cant think of any commandments it would be ok to break... I try to live by those laws... I think the Ten Commandments may be the only laws, that i might be able to uphold (to the best of my ability)...

The Bible actually says the Ten Commandments are summed up in two commandments.
You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: You must love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets. - Matthew 22:39

Jesus was quoting the Law Code in Leviticus 19:18. "You must not take vengeance nor hold a grudge against the sons of your people, and you must love your fellow man as yourself. I am Jehovah." and Deut 6:5, "You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength."

So are you saying the Ten Commandments should invalid in our time.. or something?

They are not a curse like the used to be. Under the Law Code breaking the ten commandments meant a person was but to death. The punishment is not what we are under anymore. Yet are we still expected to not kill or steal, and we are expected to honor father and mother to the best of our ability? Yes, as that would be loving our fellow man.

The only commandment from the 10 commandments that doesn't effect those under the Law of the Christ is the sabbath. After the death of Jesus, Christians are no longer required to keep the sabbath.

Ya i suppose... (and thank you for bringing up the Sabbath Commandment, becuase i wasnt really thinking that hard about them).. Though at the same time, i suppose being within a community, at Church on Sundays is still a thing? Idk... Maybe it is important maybe its not... To me, i think it is...

But Christian theology still says sinning leads to death, and you believe that right?

[2timothy316]

Like im just trying to get what you are saying, what you believe, what you disagree with (in my post.... if you do)....


If the Law is abolished... Like, we dont believe it is ok to kill people (for example)... No one believes that it is ok to kill people (unless your a psycho, i guess)... right?


Is it becuase of your theology, that you might suggest these laws are no longer valid? Apologetic for atheist critics?

(edit, i wrote this before i saw the post above)

They are valid, except the sabbath. The other 9 are valid because the are encompassed in one commandment to love our neighbor as ourselves. However, we are not put to death for breaking them, like in the days when the Law Code was in effect. Jesus death covers our sins except practiced sin. There is no covering sins that are practiced.

[2timothy316]

Ya i suppose... (and thank you for bringing up the Sabbath Commandment, becuase i wasnt really thinking that hard about them).. Though at the same time, i suppose being within a community, at Church on Sundays is still a thing? Idk... Maybe it is important maybe its not... To me, i think it is...

Yes meeting together is a Christian commandment, "And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, Let us not forsake the gathering of ourselves together, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near. (Heb. 10:24, 25)

But Christian theology still says sinning leads to death, and you believe that right?

"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition." - Heb 10:27

A mistake can be pardoned. There is no covering over willful practice of sin. Jesus ultimately will be our judge in this matter. (John 5:22)

[otseng]

So far in this thread, the emphasis has been on obeying the law. However, keep does not only mean to obey. It has a much broader meaning than that.

It also means:
- To manage, tend, or have charge of: Keep the shop while I'm away.
- To celebrate; observe: keep the Sabbath.
- To maintain for use or service: an urbanite who didn't keep a car.
- To retain possession of: kept the change; must keep your composure.
- To cause to continue in a state, condition, or course of action: tried to keep the patient calm.
- To be faithful to; fulfill: keep one's word.
- Care; charge: The child is in my keep for the day.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/keep

In these senses of the meaning of keep, I believe it is possible to keep all of the laws of the entire Bible.

Even in the Hebrew and Greek, keep also has a broad range of meaning besides just obey.

shamar
- to keep, guard, keep watch and ward, protect, save life
- to watch for, wait for
- treasure up
- celebrate
- preserve, protect
- take care
- regard

Eden was commanded to keep the garden.

[Gen 2:15 KJV] 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep (shamar) it.

Cain asked if he was a keeper of his brother.

[Gen 4:9 KJV] 9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where [is] Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: [Am] I my brother's keeper (shamar)?

Jacob kept his flock.

[Gen 30:31 KJV] 31 And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed [and] keep (shamar) thy flock:

tre
- take care of
- to guard
- watch

Jesus kept his disciples.

[Jhn 17:12 KJV] 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept (tre) them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

[Jhn 17:15 KJV] 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep (tre) them from the evil.

phylass
- to guard
- to watch, keep watch
- care for

Shepherds kept the flock

[Luk 2:8 KJV] 8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping (phylass) watch over their flock by night.

Of course, shamar, tre, and phylass also means to obey, and we should do that too (though people might disagree on what Old Testament laws we still need to obey). But, we can still manage, celebrate, take care, treasure, regard, guard all the laws.

[tam]

[Replying to post 1 by otseng]

Peace to you!


This question has come up a few times of late. I responded on the thread from the OP, and another thread here ( viewtopic.php?p=989108#989108 ) and here ( viewtopic.php?p=987623#987623 ).



But the following is what Christ said we will keep (if we love Him):

Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him. John 14:21

If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him." John 14:23

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:15

If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love. John 15:10


If we are in the new covenant, we are under Christ (and so grace; mercy). The law of the new covenant, that is written upon the heart, is love - against which there is NO law.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy