The Christian Response to Homosexuality

[micatala]

Many Christians consider homosexual practices to be immoral. The forum has multiple threads which include arguments as to whether or not homosexuality should be considered immoral, and even whether this position is supported Biblically.

In this thread, we will take it is a given that homosexuality is immoral.

Under this assumption, what should the response of Christians be to the existence of homosexuality? How should we interact with or treat persons who are homosexuals?

In terms of political society, what sort of laws should Christians support with respect to homosexuality? If there is to be unequal treatment of homosexuals under the law, what is the Biblical basis for this?


Again, arguments concerning the morality of homosexuality are not relevant to the thread. What is relevant is discussion of the possible Christian responses to homosexuality, and what valid rationale there are for these responses.

[Cathar1950]

McCulloch you could write a book with examples.
As a former Christian I can see why you would have something to say and why it is of interest. While everyone is still getting breast feed you just want a good meal.

[1John2_26]

1John2_26 wrote:
Now, McCulloch appears very much to be an anti-Christian. Why would an anti-Christian person have any value in a thread about "The Christian Response to Homosexuality?"

In Argumentum ad hominem, McCulloch wrote:
Argumentum ad hominem literally means "argument directed at the man". They falsely assume that characteristics of the person responsible for an argument imply that the argument itself must have certain characteristics, or that the characteristics of the person responsible for the argument are relevant to the acceptability of the argument itself.

Thank you for providing such a clear example.

That an anti-Christian is trying to poison the Christian well?

Seems logical.

[McCulloch]

[...]Argumentum ad hominem[...] Thank you for providing such a clear example.

That an anti-Christian is trying to poison the Christian well?

The point of my observation is that you attacked the person making the argument rather than the argument itself. Yes, as a former Christian, I may well be motivated to express views which are anti-Christian. That does not make any argument that I post any more or less true. The argument presented is either valid or not, independent of the motivation of the arguer.

Seems logical.

Not logical but certainly reasonable. You see, logical means that the conclusion is drawn from a set of premises, following a set group of rules. You cannot logically show that a former Christian must be trying to denigrate Christianity. However, you can show that it is reasonably probable that such a person would do such a thing. Either way, it does not show that the argument is true or false.
Which, in case we have forgotten is:

You ignore the fact that human reason factors into "getting understanding from God's word." You read the Bible through human eyes. This means your prejudices will influence your understanding of the Bible.

Did not Jesus promise to send his Holy Spirit to guide his followers in the correct path? With the Holy Spirit of God to guide them, how could real Christians ever be mistaken about God's word?

Let me answer my own question. Here are the possibilities as I see them:

1. There is no Holy Spirit.
2. There is a Holy Spirit, but Jesus did not send Him.
3. The Holy Spirit is deceiving real Christians.
4. The Holy Spirit is guiding real Christians but they are ignoring Him.
5. Jesus did not mean that the Holy Spirit would be sent to guide all of the real Christians but a subset, such as the apostles only.
6. Real Christians are not mistaken about God's word; the Holy Spirit does guide them. Only false Christians can be mistaken.

I have tried to be as complete as possible. I think that these are the only possibilities, but if I have left any out, feel free to append them to the list.
I believe option 1. I am quite sure that options 2 and 3 can be dismissed rather quickly by all believing Christians. Option 5 is taught by some Christian sects.

[theleftone]

McCulloch,

7. The Holy Spirit guides believers, but because of their finite human nature they only understand such guidance in part or misinterpret their own ideas as guidance from the Holy Spirit.

[McCulloch]

You ignore the fact that human reason factors into "getting understanding from God's word." You read the Bible through human eyes. This means your prejudices will influence your understanding of the Bible.

Did not Jesus promise to send his Holy Spirit to guide his followers in the correct path? With the Holy Spirit of God to guide them, how could real Christians ever be mistaken about God's word?

Restated:
Let me answer my own question. Here are the possibilities as I see them:

1. There is no Holy Spirit.
2. There is a Holy Spirit, but Jesus did not send Him.
3. The Holy Spirit is deceiving real Christians.
4. The Holy Spirit is guiding real Christians but they are not following His guidence because
   1. they are ignoring Him.
   2. they misunderstand the His guidence.
   3. they misinterpret their own ideas as guidance from the Holy Spirit.
5. Jesus did not mean that the Holy Spirit would be sent to guide all of the real Christians but a subset, such as the apostles only.
6. Real Christians are not mistaken about God's word; the Holy Spirit does guide them. Only false Christians can be mistaken.

I have tried to be as complete as possible. I think that these are the only possibilities, but if I have left any out, feel free to append them to the list.
I believe option 1. I am quite sure that options 2 and 3 can be dismissed rather quickly by all believing Christians. Option 4 is the human weakness and limitiation options. Option 5 is taught by some Christian sects.

[theleftone]

McCulloch,

That works as well.

[melikio]

I have tried to be as complete as possible. I think that these are the only possibilities, but if I have left any out, feel free to append them to the list.
I believe option 1. I am quite sure that options 2 and 3 can be dismissed rather quickly by all believing Christians. Option 4 is the human weakness and limitiation options. Option 5 is taught by some Christian sects.

Yep, I agree that you nailed all of the possibilities I've considered.

And in light of those possibilities, the biggest problems stem from those who were taught (or programmed to think), that their specific belief is THE only proper belief.

Some people try to leave the dispensing of "grace" to God, so as soon as you step outside of one of the the LINES (boundaries or paradigms) drawn in their mind, they believe they should POUNCE on you, to force you back into place. The problem is, many try to define the "Holy Spirit" for everyone, rather than accepting that people can view and approach that aspect of Christianity is several unique/distinct ways.

Some believe it's MY WAY or THE HIGHWAY. And that is the attitude which has often caused actions stemming from "religion" to be some of the most significant problems in this world. Anyone who doesn't believe EXACTLY what THEY believe, is automatically viewed as a mortal enemy. Personally, I think that's a terrible place to take one's faith.

-Mel-

[Cathar1950]

Maybe Jesus never said that and the writers just wrote it in to cover their butts. The spirit is the spirit of Christ that was talking to Paul all the time and the writers put the words in to Jesus' mouth like the last supper's this is my body and this is my blood vision by Paul.
That would probably go under #1?

[Suzanne]

You ignore the fact that human reason factors into "getting understanding from God's word." You read the Bible through human eyes. This means your prejudices will influence your understanding of the Bible.

Did not Jesus promise to send his Holy Spirit to guide his followers in the correct path? With the Holy Spirit of God to guide them, how could real Christians ever be mistaken about God's word?

Restated:
Let me answer my own question. Here are the possibilities as I see them:

1. There is no Holy Spirit.
2. There is a Holy Spirit, but Jesus did not send Him.
3. The Holy Spirit is deceiving real Christians.
4. The Holy Spirit is guiding real Christians but they are not following His guidence because
   1. they are ignoring Him.
   2. they misunderstand the His guidence.
   3. they misinterpret their own ideas as guidance from the Holy Spirit.
5. Jesus did not mean that the Holy Spirit would be sent to guide all of the real Christians but a subset, such as the apostles only.
6. Real Christians are not mistaken about God's word; the Holy Spirit does guide them. Only false Christians can be mistaken.

I have tried to be as complete as possible. I think that these are the only possibilities, but if I have left any out, feel free to append them to the list.
I believe option 1. I am quite sure that options 2 and 3 can be dismissed rather quickly by all believing Christians. Option 4 is the human weakness and limitiation options. Option 5 is taught by some Christian sects.

such as the apostles only.

THE HOLY SPIRIT CAN be RECIEVED AND IS IN ALL . yet people have not LET HIM BE AWAKENED IN THEM TO WORK THROUGH THEM FOR The GOOD OF ALL AROUND THEM..

When HE shows up in all those HE is AWAKE AND PRESENT IN HE is SHUT DOWN SHUT UP AND NOT HEARD . even when they have THOSE APPENDAGES on the sides of their head.. called EARS> but they do not hear. . BECAUSE THEY do not want to hear about their wrong doing because that CONDEMNS THEM and NONE LIKE TO be CONDEMNED for their sin they do do they. BUT THOSE THAT HAVE believed are NOT CONDEMNED . FOR There is no CONDEMNATION TO THOSE whom have believed.. AND ALL THOSE that HAVE NOT BELIEVED ARE CONDEMNED ALREADY. BECAUSE the words they SPEAK CONDEMN THEM... FOR THE WORDS HE HAS HAD WRITTEN AND SAID JUDGES THEM ALREADY.

MENTION THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST that shed HIS BLOOD FOR US and PEOPLE CRINGE and run away from that name. yet IN THE END EVERY KNEE will bow and Know HE is the LORD.

THE WORD CUTS SHARPER THEN ANY TWO-EDGED SWORD.
CICUMCIZING THE HEART AND RENEWS THE MIND AND GIVES REBIRTH TO THE SOUL THAT WAS LOST! NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER UNLESS THEY COME BY THE WAY And THAT WAY IS THROUGH THE CROSS! where the BLOOD was shed. IF THERE BE NO CROSS, THEIR IS NO SHED BLOOD< AND NO DEATH< AND NO TOMB AND NO RESURRECTION IF THERE BE NO RESURRECTION THAN WE ALL ARE ALREADY DEAD AND IN OUR GRAVE > HAVING NO LIFE WITHIN US AND NO SPIRIT OR BLOOD OR NO REBIRTH BAPTISM OF THAT PROMISE THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN PROPHECIED AND BEEN GIVEN> NOW DENY THE TRUTH IF YOU WANT TO BUT I WILL BOAST IN THE GOSPEL THAT I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!! HE IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIGHT OF THIS WORLD AND THIS AGE!!!!!!!!!TO BLASPHEMY THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN IN THIS AGE OR THE NEXT AGE TO COME.

[theleftone]

Suzanne,

I have no idea what you're talking about.