Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[onewithhim]

Dear onewithhim,

After reviewing the various replies I I see some good points and some not so good. While opinions differ on this topic I suspect that there is a most important fundamental question that should be understood and answered correctly.

DID GOD THE FATHER IN ALL HIS WISDOM AND ALL KNOWING PLAN, INTEND FOR US AS HIS SPIRIT CHILDREN TO BE TRIED AND TESTED AS MORTAL BEINGS? IN OTHER WORDS IS MORTALITY A PART AND PARCEL OF HIS DIVINE PLAN?

What is your response to this question?

Kind regards,
RW

The Father sometimes has chosen not to foreknow something. How boring for Him if He knew everything that would happen! Just because He CAN know things doesn't mean that He wants to. He chose to not know what Adam and Eve would do, so that He could legitimately say to them that they had a choice to choose what they would do.

He never intended for humans to be tested as mortal beings other than how He wished to see them show their love for Him by leaving His one tree alone. If they did, it would be like saying, "We love you, Dad." If they had resisted Satan's appeal, they would still be here!

[myth-one.com]

I must say, a "person" is any individual that has the attributes of a Higher Power, like humans, such as the ability to love, exercise power, justice and wisdom. Of course this can relate to the Higher Power Himself. I believe that the Bible even refers to God as a "Person." The New World Translation renders many verses as refering to the "person" of Jehovah, yet the KJV renders the word for "person" as "presence." Interestingly, the KJV translates Exodus 15:3 as: "The LORD is a MAN of war." Therefore, it shows that Jehovah, called a "man," can be referred to as a "person." It follows logically.

This is not to say that Jehovah is literally a MAN. It is to say that he can be considered a PERSON. A "man" is a person, and Jehovah can be looked at as a "Person."

Mankind and God are both living beings.

They are not both persons.

Blasphemy against God in the Bible is a man assuming to himself godly characteristics -- immortality, all knowing, etc.

John 10:31-33
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

If a person is a man, then God is not a person because God has unmanly characteristics -- immortality, all knowing, etc.

I must say, a "person" is any individual that has the attributes of a Higher Power,"

If that "Higher Power" is God, it better be an attribute which man and God share.

The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 12:31-32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Be careful.

[onewithhim]

I must say, a "person" is any individual that has the attributes of a Higher Power, like humans, such as the ability to love, exercise power, justice and wisdom. Of course this can relate to the Higher Power Himself. I believe that the Bible even refers to God as a "Person." The New World Translation renders many verses as refering to the "person" of Jehovah, yet the KJV renders the word for "person" as "presence." Interestingly, the KJV translates Exodus 15:3 as: "The LORD is a MAN of war." Therefore, it shows that Jehovah, called a "man," can be referred to as a "person." It follows logically.

This is not to say that Jehovah is literally a MAN. It is to say that he can be considered a PERSON. A "man" is a person, and Jehovah can be looked at as a "Person."

Mankind and God are both living beings.

They are not both persons.

Blasphemy against God in the Bible is a man assuming to himself godly characteristics -- immortality, all knowing, etc.

John 10:31-33
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

If a person is a man, then God is not a person because God has unmanly characteristics -- immortality, all knowing, etc.

I must say, a "person" is any individual that has the attributes of a Higher Power,"

If that "Higher Power" is God, it better be an attribute which man and God share.

The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 12:31-32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Be careful.

Indeed. I have thought it out quite thoroughly.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2572]

Blasphemy against YHVH in the Bible is a man assuming to himself godly characteristics -- immortality, all knowing, etc.

Yes - it could be those things but it is more than these.

Overall, it is the misrepresenting of YHVH in any way, which constitutes blasphemy against YHVH, thus the requirement to tread carefully in the knowledge of YHVH.

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2564]

DID YHVH CREATE HUMANS TO EVENTUALLY DIE?

No. YHVHs original purpose was that humans live forever on earth.

This is questionable as the death spoken of by YHVH to Adam was not a physical death.
The evidence suggest strongly that YHVH created the human form to expire as YHVH uses the human form to grow personalities through, in which YHVH can communicate/interact with and utilize re The Agenda of YHVH.

This is not to say that the body-set [human form] is not also useful to YHVH while it lives, but it is to say that the personality is still useful to YHVH, even without a body-set.

Adams personality was of no use to YHVH and became so, immediately that Adam listened to a voice other than YHVH's.

[JehovahsWitness]

The evidence suggest strongly that YHVH created the human form to expire* ...

What evidence is that?

* I take it by "created the human form to expire" you mean God created human beings to literally physically die?

... the death spoken of by YHVH to Adam was not a physical death.

What evidence do you have that Genesis 2 was not referring to physical death?



JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EVERLASTING LIFE, DEATH and ...THE PURPOSE OF LIFE

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2564]

DID YHVH CREATE HUMANS TO EVENTUALLY DIE?

No. YHVHs original purpose was that humans live forever on earth.

This is questionable as the death spoken of by YHVH to Adam was not a physical death.

The death was certainly a physical death, as well as a spiritual death. They spiritually died immediately, and physically they died within a "day" to Jehovah, which is 1,000 years (II Peter 3:8). If they had remained faithful, they would still be here, and would live forever on Earth as long as they remained faithful.

Jehovah had no reason to try out personalities in physical bodies to transfer into spirit beings. He made angels that have their own personalities, so what would be the point in making physical beings that would later morph into spirits like the angels?

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2576]

The evidence suggest strongly that YHVH created the human form to expire* ...

What evidence is that?

* I take it by "created the human form to expire" you mean God created human beings to literally physically die?

No. I do not conflate 'the human form' with 'the human personality'.

Part of the evidence in in the section of my statement which you snipped, which reads;

This is questionable as the death spoken of by YHVH to Adam was not a physical death.
The evidence suggest strongly that YHVH created the human form to expire as YHVH uses the human form to grow personalities through, in which YHVH can communicate/interact with and utilize re The Agenda of YHVH.

... the death spoken of by YHVH to Adam was not a physical death.

What evidence do you have that Genesis 2 was not referring to physical death?

Adam's physical body did not die. The Second Creation Story tells us that, and so is part of said evidence.
I wrote;

Adams personality was of no use to YHVH and became so, immediately that Adam listened to a voice other than YHVH's.

It was Adam - the personality - which became dead [of no use] to YHVH. YHVH is the "God of The Living" [useful to YHVH] not of the dead. [useless to YHVH]

YHVH: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Since Adam's body did not die when Adam ate the fruit, YHVH could not have been referring to Adams body as being 'Adam' and the thing which would die.
Therefore, YHVH must have been referring to 'Adam' - the personality within the body - to which YHVH communed with.

[William]

YHVH had no reason to try out personalities in physical bodies to transfer into spirit beings.

What authority do you have to claim YHVH had no reason to do this?

One reason YHVH would have had to create things in this manner, would be to grow personalities through the medium of an animal form, that said personality grown by said method, became an aspect of the spirit being connected with it.

YHVH made angels that have their own personalities, so what would be the point in making physical beings that would later morph into spirits like the angels?

See above for one such point.

Q: What evidence do you have to support that "angels had their own personalities".

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2576]

The evidence suggest strongly that YHVH created the human form to expire* ...

What evidence is that?

* I take it by "created the human form to expire" you mean God created human beings to literally physically die?

No. I do not conflate 'the human form' with 'the human personality'.

Well, then I don't care. I am saying that scripturally, God did not create human beings to literally physically die. According to scripture he wanted them to continue in the physical bodies they were created with alive, forever.

Everything else is just gravy ...


JW




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