In The Beginning...

[William]

Question For Debate:



Resources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... imulation/
https://builtin.com/hardware/simulation-theory
https://www.simulation-argument.com/

[The Tanager]

Now you should be able to give an example of what it is you are saying re the difference between what you understand to be a non-simulated creation and what you understand to be a simulated creation.

I have. VR is a simulation type of creation. A painting is a non-simulation type of creation.

[William]

William: Now you should be able to give an example of what it is you are saying re the difference between what you understand to be a non-simulated creation and what you understand to be a simulated creation.

[Replying to The Tanager in post #31]

I have. VR is a simulation type of creation.

Virtual reality is a simulation. The creation aspect has to do with the software and hardware.
The mechanism through which experience can be had.

A painting is a non-simulation type of creation.

Please show me an example of a painting which is a non-simulation type of creation.
Remember - I think there is no difference between creation and simulation re this universe.
You think there is.
So it is up to you to show this is the case.

[The Tanager]

[Replying to William in post #32]

The difference is that one creation (VR) we can enter into, we can interact with the world we've created and in the other (a painting) we can't. You can move a box you created in VR through the software and hardware (the materials) of VR. You can't move a box you painted through the materials of the painting. Whatever phrasing you think fits best for this difference, that is what I'm talking about.

[William]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #33]

Are you arguing that the Universe is like a created painting?

[The Tanager]

Are you arguing that the Universe is like a created painting?

No, I'm asking you a clarifying question to avoid misunderstanding you. If by "simulation" you mean the kind of simulation in VR or if your "simulation" is unrelated to the usual meaning for that term.

Now, do I think the universe is like a painting? Yes and no. I think God's relationship to it is closer to a painting than a VR in the sense that God doesn't enter into creation and control it (like we don't enter into a painting). There would be better analogies, I'm sure (like having a child perhaps), I just haven't thought that through because I'm honestly just trying to make sure I understand what you are saying by using simulation as a synonym for creation rather than making a claim or argument about my belief.

[William]

Are you arguing that the Universe is like a created painting?

No, I'm asking you a clarifying question to avoid misunderstanding you. If by "simulation" you mean the kind of simulation in VR or if your "simulation" is unrelated to the usual meaning for that term.

Surely post # should have cleared that up for you?

I think YHWH's relationship to it is closer to a painting than a VR in the sense that YHWH doesn't enter into creation and control it...

Simulation Games are not all about controlling or having control over The Simulation.
They generally involve being a character within and doing what one can within the encoded avatar the player is playing through.

There has been no argument from me that YHWH controls The Simulation from within the simulation, but your assertion that YHWH does not enter The Simulation appears to contradict the biblical narrative.

Re avatars, YHWH is said to have achieved this through such things as being a voice in the garden, a voice in a burning bush, a voice in the head of Abraham, - indeed, in every instance I can think of at this moment - where it is said that YHWH enters the Creation, it is done through the guise of some type of avatar - and an accompanying voice which claims to be either YHWH or a messenger of YHWH.

However

I'm honestly just trying to make sure I understand what you are saying by using simulation as a synonym for creation rather than making a claim or argument about my belief.

I have already made it plain # that your beliefs are not up for debate re the thread topic.

A reminder:

Question For Debate:



Resources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... imulation/
https://builtin.com/hardware/simulation-theory
https://www.simulation-argument.com/

[The Tanager]

Surely post # should have cleared that up for you?

Well, it didn’t. Perhaps I'm just missing something obvious, but I'm definitely confused with your word choice. So, if you want to continue this conversation with me, you need to find another way to explain it.

[William]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #37]

No, I'm asking you a clarifying question to avoid misunderstanding you. If by "simulation" you mean the kind of simulation in VR or if your "simulation" is unrelated to the usual meaning for that term.

What do you mean by "the usual meaning for that term"?

[The Tanager]

[Replying to William in post #38]

What the "usual meaning" is is irrelevant, so we can drop that. What is important is that we have a clear idea of your terms. I think there is a clear distinction between creating a VR world that one can then move about in and manipulate and creating a painting that you can't move about in and manipulate. Do you agree? Why or why not? I'm not asking whether the universe is like one or the other or both in their own ways, but just if these two creations are different in this respect.

[William]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #39]

I think there is a clear distinction between creating a VR world that one can then move about in and manipulate and creating a painting that you can't move about in and manipulate. Do you agree?

For now, I will go along with agreeing with you.

Why or why not?

I will wait until I have an answer from you on your own question and then reconfirm whether I agree with you or not and why.

Why do you think there is a clear distinction between creating a VR world that one can then move about in and manipulate and creating a painting that you can't move about in and manipulate?

{Note: I think that the distinction is obvious but have no inkling as to why you think it is important to note that distinction other than it has something to do with why you find it difficult to understand that creation [the universe] is not the same a simulation.}