Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[JehovahsWitness]

...the word “other” has been added to the Colossians passage four times, and it changes the meaning of what the author intended.

So you claim, we all await your evidence to that end.

(a) state what you believe to be the writers intended meaning (with supporting text/argumentation)

(b) demonstrate how the word "other" deviates from (a). Supporting reference to greek grammar would add weight to your argument.

JW

...when differences of opinion arise regarding various translations, Hebrew and Greek sources will have a greater authority.

[MissKate13]

...the word “other” has been added to the Colossians passage four times, and it changes the meaning of what the author intended.

So you claim, we all await your evidence to that end.

(a) state what you believe to be the writers intended meaning (with supporting text/argumentation)

(b) demonstrate how the word "other" deviates from (a). Supporting reference to greek grammar would add weight to your argument.

JW

...when differences of opinion arise regarding various translations, Hebrew and Greek sources will have a greater authority.

What reason would they have for adding the word other if not to show Jesus was a created being?

Can you provide any other Scripture that says Jesus was created? Yes? No?

When was Jesus created?

[JehovahsWitness]

What reason would they have for adding the word other if not to show Jesus was a created being?

I did not invite speculation as to the motivation of translators, I asked for evidence to support YOUR claim. Here it is again...

KATES CLAIM :

...the word “other” has been added to the Colossians passage four times, and it changes the meaning of what the author intended.

(a) state what you believe to be the writers intended meaning (with supporting text/argumentation)

(b) demonstrate how the word "other" deviates from (a). Supporting reference to greek grammar would add weight to your argument.

JW

...when differences of opinion arise regarding various translations, Hebrew and Greek sources will have a greater authority.

You support your claim and if ever you see I make any claims myself, feel free to quote the claim I make and ask for supoorting evidence. As it stands I am asking you to support what YOU have claimed (see above).

[MissKate13]

...the word “other” has been added to the Colossians passage four times, and it changes the meaning of what the author intended.

So you claim, we all await your evidence to that end.

(a) state what you believe to be the writers intended meaning (with supporting text/argumentation)

(b) demonstrate how the word "other" deviates from (a). Supporting reference to greek grammar would add weight to your argument.

JW

...when differences of opinion arise regarding various translations, Hebrew and Greek sources will have a greater authority.

What reason would they have for adding the word other if not to show Jesus was a created being?

Can you provide any other Scripture that says Jesus was created? Yes? No?

When was Jesus created?

Wouldn’t you agree that our discussion is a two way street? I gave you what I believe the reason the translators added the word other four times. Since you are a JW, perhaps you could explain to me why the word other was added. What evidence do you have that favors the addition to God’s word?

If Jesus was a created being, there should be evidence of it elsewhere. Can you provide any other Scripture that says Jesus was created? Yes? No?

When was Jesus created?

[JehovahsWitness]

I gave you what I believe the reason the translators added the word other four times.

I did not ask for your beliefs about the Watchtower translators motives, I asked you to defend your claim. You claim that the word "other" to quote you "changes the meaning" of the text.

...the word “other” has been added to the Colossians passage four times, and it changes the meaning of what the author intended.

I asked you for evidence of this claim; in response to my requedt you made a fallacious point about the NW Interlinear not using brackets and pointed to the fact that the NWT stood alone in its choice. Neither of which are evidence of the authors intent or of mistranslation.

You did not present what you believe to be the authors intended meaning, you offered no supporting evidence for that position, you have made no reference to the context , the greek language or grammar and you did not present any evidence that the above had been violated by the Watchtower translators. Indeed so far I see ( ignoring fantom bracket violation) you have offered nothing at all in the way of supporting argumentation.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Since you are a JW, perhaps you could explain to me why the word other was added. What evidence do you have that favors the addition to God’s word?

I will certainly consider doing so, but only after you defend or withdraw your claim. Here is the claim in question.

...the word “other” has been added to the Colossians passage four times, and it changes the meaning of what the author intended.

If you rest your case with what amounts to "willful misuse of brackets" and "everybody agrees with me so I must be right" ...fair enough, but please be so kind to clearly state that you have nothing more substancial to support your claim. I in turn will dismiss it as being frivolous and we can move along.




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




RELATED POSTS

Did the Watchtower translators misuse brackets ?
viewtopic.php?p=1111677#p1111677

[Difflugia]

(a) state what you believe to be the writers intended meaning (with supporting text/argumentation)

(b) demonstrate how the word "other" deviates from (a). Supporting reference to greek grammar would add weight to your argument.

Considering how similar conversations about original languages have gone for you, I'm surprised that you'd so explicitly try to start another one. Your argument once again is that if the original author might have meant what you want despite normal language conventions, even the worst and most disingenuous translation is somehow reasonable. Paul is universally regarded by scholars and theologians alike to have been formally trained in classical Greek rhetoric. If Paul meant "other," Paul would have said "other." Unless you're willing to rest upon the completely underwhelming accomplishment of hurdling the bar of "possible," you have utterly failed to make a case. MissKate13's statement alone is absolutely fatal to any more difficult standard than "possible." Insisting that MissKate13 make a further argument about a language that you so clearly can't read can be nothing more than an attempt at deflection. Even so, the Greek contains no word that could translate as "other." The context contains no implication that the author meant, but didn't explicitly write, "other." The literal extent of your evidence is that Paul didn't include a footnote that if someone translated it for you, would read:

And to those that for some baffling reason think that I when I write "all things" (τὰ πάντα), I actually meant "all other things" (τὰ ἄλλα πάντα), I don't.

You see, Greek has a word for other and Paul clearly knew it because he used it a lot. He didn't use it in Colossians 1:16, though. He might have meant it, sure. It's possible. There's no reason for NWT translators to insert it, though, for any reasons other than conforming the text to their own theology with which the text conflicts, both in Greek and in English generated within reasonable translation guidelines.

[onewithhim]

What would a false god be to you?

Thanks for your question!
In my humble opinion, a false god would be the exact opposite of our true God.

Our God by nature is love, righteousness, holiness, truth, grace and mercy.

A false god by nature would be the exact opposite: hate, unrighteousness, falsehood, no grace, and merciless.

​

So, really, Jesus is a TRUE god. After all, "god" means an important, highly revered, powerful individual, such as even human judges or governors or kings, and even angels are referred to as "gods."

[onewithhim]

No other English translation uses “other” in the Colossians passage.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people")is a fallacious argument which is based on claiming a truth or affirming something is good because the majority thinks so; it alleges if many believe it so, it is so.

...when differences of opinion arise regarding various translations, Hebrew and Greek sources will have a greater authority.

I’m sorry JW, but no argument or meme changes the fact that the word “other” has been added to the Colossians passage four times, and it changes the meaning of what the author intended.

The fact of the matter is that "other" does not change the meaning of what the author intended. Can you state what you think the author intended to show?

[MissKate13]

Since you are a JW, perhaps you could explain to me why the word other was added. What evidence do you have that favors the addition to God’s word?

I will certainly consider doing so, but only after you defend or withdraw your claim. Here is the claim in question.

...the word “other” has been added to the Colossians passage four times, and it changes the meaning of what the author intended.

If you rest your case with what amounts to "willful misuse of brackets" and "everybody agrees with me so I must be right" ...fair enough, but please be so kind to clearly state that you have nothing more substancial to support your claim. I in turn will dismiss it as being frivolous and we can move along.




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




RELATED POSTS

Did the Watchtower translators misuse brackets ?
viewtopic.php?p=1111677#p1111677

I responded to this post but cannot find it. So here is the gist of what I wrote.

Watchtower Online Library gives an explanation for why they added “other.” Their reasoning basically agrees with what I wrote. Here is an excerpt.

“all other things: A literal rendering of the Greek text would be “all things.” (Compare Kingdom Interlinear.) However, such a rendering could give the impression that Jesus was not created but was the Creator himself. And that idea would not agree with the rest of the Bible, including the preceding verse, which calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation.”

There you have it! Watchtower says they added the word “other” because the literal reading could give the impression that Jesus was not created.

If Paul had intended to use the word “other,” he would have since he uses it at least 38 times by my count. He was very familiar with the word.

More importantly, it is made clear in Scripture that we are not to ADD or TAKE AWAY from God’s word. This is precisely what the NWT has done. They added “other” because they believed not adding it would give the wrong impression. It would cause people to believe Jesus was not created. What they didn’t consider was that was precisely what the Holy Spirit intended Paul. to write.

I have answered your question to the best of my ability. Now please reciprocate by answering mine.

Can you provide any other Scripture that says Jesus was created? Yes? No?

When was Jesus created?