Is there only one trinity doctrine or are there many?

[2timothy316]

Trinitarians are not one group.

Is this true? Are there different groups of trinitarians that all have different trinity doctrines?

[bjs1]

Where has this been shown?

Read the past comments.

I have. There are some posters arguing that there is not agreement on what the doctrine of the trinity is. Other than the pronouncements of these posters, nothing has been done to show that such a disagreement exists anywhere but in their imagination.

Now if you want to show that my statement is false it easy to do. Find any sizable* group of Christian that claims to believe in the Trinity and that defines "trinity" as something other than the description that I have given.


*Let's say that "sizable" means a group that makes up at least 1% of Christians.

[Eloi]

Trinitarians DO NOT AGREE for example in these 7 variables:

1) Jehovah is Jesus or not
2) Are the Father and Son co-equal in knowledge and power
3) there is subordination in their relationship or both have the same authority
4) Was Jesus God even when human or not
5) Was prehuman Jesus an independent person or just an impersonal part of God
6) Was Jesus the angel of Jehovah in OT or not
7) is the Son as person an eternal-in-past being, or was he begotten any time in the past

What does your own version say about these points?

[2timothy316]

How is it that I'm the judge of a person when the doctrine they are trying to describe can't be described?

The doctrine of the Trinity has been described in this thread. Virtually everyone agrees on what the Trinity is in a Christian context. Not everyone agrees with the Trinity. Even among people who do not believe in the Trinity there is a nearly universal agreement on what the doctrine of the Trinity is.

Nearly but not completely.

Hence I said “virtually everyone agrees..” There will always be the 1% - 2% of people who disagree with anything. I mean, look at the flat earth movement...

Are the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit all equal to one another?

Yes.

When Jesus was executed did he really die? Like the dictionary definition for dead.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dead

[historia]

SINCE: we can find selfcalled trinitarians who say Jehovah is Jesus and others who say Jehovah is not Jesus, or some who say the Father and Jesus are co-equal, and others who say there is subordination among them, some say that when Jesus was a human he was not God and others say he was God even when human, some say prehuman-Jesus was just a non personal internal part of God and became personal only when he was born as human, and others say he was an independent person even before becoming human, etc.

Which Christian sects are you referring to that hold the beliefs I've bolded from you list above?

[Eloi]

When Jesus was executed did he really die? Like the dictionary definition for dead.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dead

Good question, and that is precisely another of the trinitarians' dilemmas: did Jesus raise himself while he was dead, or did his Father raise him?

[Eloi]

SINCE: we can find selfcalled trinitarians who say Jehovah is Jesus and others who say Jehovah is not Jesus, or some who say the Father and Jesus are co-equal, and others who say there is subordination among them, some say that when Jesus was a human he was not God and others say he was God even when human, some say prehuman-Jesus was just a non personal internal part of God and became personal only when he was born as human, and others say he was an independent person even before becoming human, etc.

Which Christian sects are you referring to that hold the beliefs I've bolded from you list above?

So do you think that disqualifying other trinitarians will eliminate the problem?

[historia]

SINCE: we can find selfcalled trinitarians who say Jehovah is Jesus and others who say Jehovah is not Jesus, or some who say the Father and Jesus are co-equal, and others who say there is subordination among them, some say that when Jesus was a human he was not God and others say he was God even when human, some say prehuman-Jesus was just a non personal internal part of God and became personal only when he was born as human, and others say he was an independent person even before becoming human, etc.

Which Christian sects are you referring to that hold the beliefs I've bolded from you list above?

So do you think that disqualifying other trinitarians will eliminate the problem?

I don't know what that's suppose to mean.

I'm trying to establish who exactly you think believes the above ideas. Which Christian group hold those beliefs?

[2timothy316]

When Jesus was executed did he really die? Like the dictionary definition for dead.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dead

Good question, and that is precisely another of the trinitarians' dilemmas: did Jesus raise himself while he was dead, or did his Father raise him?

Well, that and if a 3rd of God dies what does that even mean for everything if even a 3rd of God can die? Yet, if there is no death, then there is no resurrection from the dead thus all Christian faith is in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:13, 14)

[Eloi]

SINCE: we can find selfcalled trinitarians who say Jehovah is Jesus and others who say Jehovah is not Jesus, or some who say the Father and Jesus are co-equal, and others who say there is subordination among them, some say that when Jesus was a human he was not God and others say he was God even when human, some say prehuman-Jesus was just a non personal internal part of God and became personal only when he was born as human, and others say he was an independent person even before becoming human, etc.

Which Christian sects are you referring to that hold the beliefs I've bolded from you list above?

So do you think that disqualifying other trinitarians will eliminate the problem?

I don't know what that's suppose to mean.

I'm trying to establish who exactly you think believes the above ideas. Which Christian group hold those beliefs?

I see you got a lot of trouble trying to figure out what most of my posts do mean. Is my English that bad?

If I am telling you that there are trinitarians who say that, believe it. Now, if you think that those separated little brothers of you are wrong ... then it is you against the world, I mean the Christendom world ... not against me, a simple JW trying to show them how contradictory they are among themselves, and teach them what the Bible really says.

Can you tell us what does your called ortodox version of the trinity teach about the 7 points I mentioned before?

[historia]

I see you got a lot of trouble trying to figure out what most of my posts do mean.

It's just my polite way of telling you that your comment is either nonsensical or is predicated on a false assumption.

If I am telling you that there are trinitarians who say that, believe it.

I'm afraid no one here has any reason to believe you, unless you can substantiate your points with evidence.

If you can't tell me which groups holds these beliefs you're claiming, then there is nothing for us to discuss.

Can you tell us what does your called ortodox version of the trinity teach about the 7 points I mentioned before?

Clearly, you and 2timothy316 have a lot of questions about the Trinity. But that's not the question under consideration in this thread. Maybe you should start a new one to have all your misconceptions cleared-up.