JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by onewithhim]

The post refers to Scripture and the names it uses.

It then proceeds to use English.

The N.T. was written in Greek; the Old, in Hebrew; the average 1st c. Palestinian spoke in Aramaic; those who live in Rome or lived among Latin speakers may have known Latin.

A better question here would be "On what basis do YOU think you are COMPETENT to judge whether the Scripture (written in ancient languages) identifies Jesus with YHWH (note, all English renderings which DO NOT appear in the manuscripts).


The question asked in this OP is ONLY for those familiar with Greek and Hebrew. All arguments based on an English text are out of court: like a parrot of an Englishman chiming in to a German conversation.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 1 by onewithhim]

The post refers to Scripture and the names it uses.

It then proceeds to use English.

The N.T. was written in Greek; the Old, in Hebrew; the average 1st c. Palestinian spoke in Aramaic; those who live in Rome or lived among Latin speakers may have known Latin.

A better question here would be "On what basis do YOU think you are COMPETENT to judge whether the Scripture (written in ancient languages) identifies Jesus with YHWH (note, all English renderings which DO NOT appear in the manuscripts).


The question asked in this OP is ONLY for those familiar with Greek and Hebrew. All arguments based on an English text are out of court: like a parrot of an Englishman chiming in to a German conversation.

Was haben Sie gesagt??

[marco]

[Replying to post 1 by onewithhim]

The post refers to Scripture and the names it uses.

It then proceeds to use English.

The N.T. was written in Greek; the Old, in Hebrew; the average 1st c. Palestinian spoke in Aramaic; those who live in Rome or lived among Latin speakers may have known Latin.

A better question here would be "On what basis do YOU think you are COMPETENT to judge whether the Scripture (written in ancient languages) identifies Jesus with YHWH (note, all English renderings which DO NOT appear in the manuscripts).


The question asked in this OP is ONLY for those familiar with Greek and Hebrew. All arguments based on an English text are out of court: like a parrot of an Englishman chiming in to a German conversation.

If the discussion concerns nuances of grammar then the original language is under discussion. This is true. Asking whether Jesus was or wasn't YHWH can be taken as requiring us to consider whether or not Jesus can be identified with the OT God. It is therefore perfectly in order to discuss the question in whatever language one has read the Bible.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 280 by Falling Light 101]

Dear sir:

I apologize, but I cannot see your way of understanding God. Your viewpoint is complicated and raises more questions than it answers.

How can Christ our Lord be his Father, God? The Bible is our message from the Father---the Most High, whose name is Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18) The name of the Son, Jesus, means "Salvation of Jehovah." They are clearly not the same person. There is no clear passage in the entire Bible that would indicate that Jesus and Jehovah are the same Person. It is quite clear that Jehovah, the Father, remained in heaven all the time that Jesus was on Earth.

It takes serious mental gymnastics to see Jesus and his Father being the same. They are "one," but only in the sense that they agree. Jesus died, and the Father, God, cannot die. Jehovah brought Jesus back to life. They are clearly separate individuals.

[onewithhim]

Many people, unbelievably. I think some of them have commented on this very thread. I am a member of "Theology On Line" and there are quite a number of people that comment there that insist that Jesus is YHWH! That forum is rather depressing.

Hi onewithin, I happen to believe that Christ is Yahweh. In fact, I believe some of the verses you cited help to prove it.

I do not believe God to be a trinity.

Jesus Christ is not equal to the Father but very close.

Just about everything we read in scripture is about CHRIST, that's how important the Son is to the FATHER.

Christ came to reveal the Father to us!

God Bless.

You contradict yourself, sir. You say that Christ is Jehovah (Yahweh) but then you say that Christ is not equal to Him. I don't understand that. You are correct, though, when you say that Christ came to reveal the Father. (John 1:18)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 284 by EBA]

Jesus and his Father are "one" in that they are in agreement. It's like I might say that my sister and I are "one" because we agree, we are of the same mind so to speak. I'm sure you have heard those expressions before.

It is clear that Jesus meant that he and his Father were in union together, being in agreement, because he said the same thing about his disciples. At John 17:21-23 he prayed to the Father that "they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they may also be in union with us."

If being "one" with the Father means that we ARE the Father or that we are God, then the disciples are also God.

[onewithhim]

Marco
Allah can do what he likes

Anybody, kindly quote the respective verse with the context verses, some verses preceding the verse and some verses following the verse in question, for the correct understanding of Quran, please.

Regards

If you find fault with the quotations, would you please yourself quote preceding and subsequent verses that would show how Marco is in error? Thank you.

[onewithhim]

Marco quoted from Quran in Post 287:
"That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who is Able to do all things. " 22:6

[22:7] That is because Allah is the Truth, and that it is He Who brings the dead to life, and that He has power over all things*;
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... .php?ch=22

*He has the power to do all things which are in accordance with His design and device and which fulfill His purpose.
(Detailed English Commentary)
https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/? ... 2&CR=EN,E2

God won't do anything against His Sunnah, it is clearly mentioned in Quran.
He won't do that shows weakness or is of blemish to do or that is against His attributes to do. He won't do anything negative.

Regards

All you have done is offered an alternative translation and then supplied your OWN interpretation, attributing to your God what YOU think he can and cannot do. That's fine, but your interpretation is your opinion.


In the case of interpreting who Jesus was, we go to the source material, the New Testament, and it is possible to take Christ as indicating to Peter that he was God. I do not take this meaning but many others do, for it is a matter of interpretation. What we cannot do is move on seven centuries and accept what Muhammad said. He had no idea. End of story there.

Marco, exactly where in the Christian Greek Scriptures does Jesus possibly indicate to Peter that he is God?

[onewithhim]

Marco -Post 289
In the case of interpreting who Jesus was, we go to the source material, the New Testament, and it is possible to take Christ as indicating to Peter that he was God.

Jesus neither wrote nor he dictated any scripture, so the one named "New Testament" is not a source document. It is a Pauline-Christianity scripture and does not contain teachings given by Jesus but the teachings that are against the teachings of Jesus.

Regards

Would you please be specific? You are making serious allegations.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 279 by onewithhim]

I refer you to Acts 9:1-15. Jesus called Paul "a chosen vessel." Remember, your Quran says that these Scriptures were given to mankind by Allah.

Kindly quote the verse of Quran with the verses in the context, that is some preceding verses and some following verse to understand them correctly , please.

Regards

How about YOU showing how Marco has misunderstood the verses in the Quran that state that the Scriptures were given to men by Allah. Explain how he is wrong.