The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[2ndpillar2]

Great Britain is not the last beast.

What "last beast" are you referring to here ? (Scriptural reference please)

I am referring to the pictorial a JW had on their message showing Britain as part of the last beast.

Do you have a link ? (I very much doubt I used the expression "last beast")

It was a pictorial of 4 beast leading up the JW kingdom. The 4th beast/man character, or kingdom showed Britain. I did a quick look and couldn't find it. If you could just name the 8 heads of the beast of Revelation 17:11, that would clear things up.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #310]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion.

BTW in answer to your question, "As for Daniel and his 2520 days, which you proscribe as 2520 years, that begs the question; do you use Jewish lunar years, or the JWs Julian calendar years, or the Roman Catholic Gregorian calendar with the years being broken down into months named after different gods?"

Do any of those calendars calculate the Earth going around the sun more than once a year? Or two or more years equaling one year? If not, then the type of calendar doesn't matter in order to count the years.

The Roman emperor Julius Caesar set up a solar calendar year, whereas the Jews had a lunar year, which depends on the cycle of the moon. One is based on the sun, and one is based on the moon. Two different types of years.

The type of calendar doesn't matter. Both only count one year at a time. A person can use a Jewish calendar if they wish. The prophecy is counting the years from the destruction of Jerusalem from the Bible. Count the calendar years from that date using whatever calendar you wish.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #310]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion.

BTW in answer to your question, "As for Daniel and his 2520 days, which you proscribe as 2520 years, that begs the question; do you use Jewish lunar years, or the JWs Julian calendar years, or the Roman Catholic Gregorian calendar with the years being broken down into months named after different gods?"

Do any of those calendars calculate the Earth going around the sun more than once a year? Or two or more years equaling one year? If not, then the type of calendar doesn't matter in order to count the years.

The Roman emperor Julius Caesar set up a solar calendar year, whereas the Jews had a lunar year, which depends on the cycle of the moon. One is based on the sun, and one is based on the moon. Two different types of years.

The type of calendar doesn't matter. Both only count one year at a time. A person can use a Jewish calendar if they wish. The prophecy is counting the years from the destruction of Jerusalem from the Bible. Count the calendar years from that date using whatever calendar you wish.

Assuming of course that Christ was speaking about a past event rather than a future event. In the entire following passages, Christ is speaking about what is going to come on the world. Future events. But the WTS takes one line out (Jerusalem will be trampled on the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled) as an event that began 5-600 years in the past. That is completely out of context.


“But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13 And so you will bear testimony to me. 14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17 Everyone will hate you because of me. 18 But not a hair of your head will perish. 19 Stand firm, and you will win life.

20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

25 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”


The WTS claims the capture of Jerusalem by the Babylonians started the 'times of the Gentiles' (and if that is not true the entire house of cards falls down), but everything Christ spoke of above was for the future (from the time He spoke).

Where did Christ ever teach that they had been in the times of the gentiles for the past six centuries?

1914 is a mishmash of personal interpretation of passages in multiple books of the bible. Others have done the same kind of thing and their prophecies/predictions have also been false. In the same way, what was supposed to have happened in 1914 (the return of Christ) did not happen. Since then, instead of admitting their mistake, error has been added to error. So that there are 'two hopes for two different classes of Christians' (something Christ never taught) and the erroneous teaching that most Christians are NOT to partake of the body and blood of Christ, despite the command of Christ TO eat and TO drink in remembrance of Him until He returns.




Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2timothy316]

Peace to you,

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #310]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion.

BTW in answer to your question, "As for Daniel and his 2520 days, which you proscribe as 2520 years, that begs the question; do you use Jewish lunar years, or the JWs Julian calendar years, or the Roman Catholic Gregorian calendar with the years being broken down into months named after different gods?"

Do any of those calendars calculate the Earth going around the sun more than once a year? Or two or more years equaling one year? If not, then the type of calendar doesn't matter in order to count the years.

The Roman emperor Julius Caesar set up a solar calendar year, whereas the Jews had a lunar year, which depends on the cycle of the moon. One is based on the sun, and one is based on the moon. Two different types of years.

The type of calendar doesn't matter. Both only count one year at a time. A person can use a Jewish calendar if they wish. The prophecy is counting the years from the destruction of Jerusalem from the Bible. Count the calendar years from that date using whatever calendar you wish.

Assuming of course that Christ was speaking about a past event rather than a future event. In the entire following passages, Christ is speaking about what is going to come on the world. Future events. But the WTS takes one line out (Jerusalem will be trampled on the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled) as an event that began 5-600 years in the past. That is completely out of context.

The prophecy about the year 1914 was not in Christ's speeches. So I don't know why you're quoting Jesus. Besides you don't think the Bible is God's Word anyway, which is where the 1914 year comes from, so anything I present from the Bible, the Hebrew scriptures or Greek, you will ignore. I do not discuss Bible prophecy with those that doesn't believe the WHOLE Bible is true and only listens to their own opinions.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #310]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion.

BTW in answer to your question, "As for Daniel and his 2520 days, which you proscribe as 2520 years, that begs the question; do you use Jewish lunar years, or the JWs Julian calendar years, or the Roman Catholic Gregorian calendar with the years being broken down into months named after different gods?"

Do any of those calendars calculate the Earth going around the sun more than once a year? Or two or more years equaling one year? If not, then the type of calendar doesn't matter in order to count the years.

The Roman emperor Julius Caesar set up a solar calendar year, whereas the Jews had a lunar year, which depends on the cycle of the moon. One is based on the sun, and one is based on the moon. Two different types of years.

The type of calendar doesn't matter. Both only count one year at a time. A person can use a Jewish calendar if they wish. The prophecy is counting the years from the destruction of Jerusalem from the Bible. Count the calendar years from that date using whatever calendar you wish.

Assuming of course that Christ was speaking about a past event rather than a future event. In the entire following passages, Christ is speaking about what is going to come on the world. Future events. But the WTS takes one line out (Jerusalem will be trampled on the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled) as an event that began 5-600 years in the past. That is completely out of context.

The prophecy about the year 1914 was not in Christ's speeches.

That is true.

So I don't know why you're quoting Jesus.

Because - as stated in my previous post - the WTS takes a single line from Christ in that entire speech to find its 'starting point' for the times of the gentiles (without which there can be no 1914). But you knew that right?

Besides you don't think the Bible is God's Word anyway, which is where the 1914 year comes from,

Christ is the Word of God. Even the bible attests to that.

And the year 1914 comes from WTS.

so anything I present from the Bible, the Hebrew scriptures or Greek, you will ignore.

This has never been true.

In fact, I quoted from what is written in the previous post. I have always backed up what I have shared, including from what is written, so that others may see it and ponder/ask (Christ) about it, themselves.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #310]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion.

BTW in answer to your question, "As for Daniel and his 2520 days, which you proscribe as 2520 years, that begs the question; do you use Jewish lunar years, or the JWs Julian calendar years, or the Roman Catholic Gregorian calendar with the years being broken down into months named after different gods?"

Do any of those calendars calculate the Earth going around the sun more than once a year? Or two or more years equaling one year? If not, then the type of calendar doesn't matter in order to count the years.

The Roman emperor Julius Caesar set up a solar calendar year, whereas the Jews had a lunar year, which depends on the cycle of the moon. One is based on the sun, and one is based on the moon. Two different types of years.

The type of calendar doesn't matter. Both only count one year at a time. A person can use a Jewish calendar if they wish. The prophecy is counting the years from the destruction of Jerusalem from the Bible. Count the calendar years from that date using whatever calendar you wish.

I think the general consensus is that the destruction of Jerusalem was in 586 BC and not the JW's 607 BC, although the 2520, supposedly coming from the "seven times" of Leviticus 26:18, which could be construed as 7 times 360 days per year = 2520, and not 7 times 365 days per year = 2555. Even if you construed Daniel 9:27 as "one week" being a week of years, it takes the same 360-day year to get your 2520 figure. As the "seven times" of Leviticus 26:18 points to the 7 beasts, a time for each beast, I don't see the relevance to your argument. The only relevance would be in the 42 months = 1260 days of Revelation 11:2-3 which also uses 30 days per month, which would come to a year being 360 days, and not 365 day. As for the time, times, and half a time of Daniel 7:25, that is closer to the type of times addressed in Daniel 11, which is generational, much like the 42 generations of Matthew 1:17. As for the Daniel 9:27 week, it was with respect to the issuing a decree to rebuild Jerusalem, and not from the destruction of Jerusalem. You are taking a hodge podge of Scripture and building a sow's ear.

[JehovahsWitness]

It was a pictorial of 4 beast leading up the JW kingdom. The 4th beast/man character, or kingdom showed Britain. I did a quick look and couldn't find it. If you could just name the 8 heads of the beast of Revelation 17:11, that would clear things up.

The fouth beast of Daniels dream does not correspond to the British empire but to Rome and it was not the Kingdom in ascendance when the Messianic kingdom came to power. You must have misunderstood my post.



(The scarlet beast of Revelation 17 has SEVEN heads not 8)




RELATED POSTS

Who or what is represented by the 8th "King" of REV 17:11?
viewtopic.php?p=1056167#p1056167

To learn more please go to other posts related to

DANIEL'S PROPHECIES , THE GENTILE TIMES and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #310]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion.

BTW in answer to your question, "As for Daniel and his 2520 days, which you proscribe as 2520 years, that begs the question; do you use Jewish lunar years, or the JWs Julian calendar years, or the Roman Catholic Gregorian calendar with the years being broken down into months named after different gods?"

Do any of those calendars calculate the Earth going around the sun more than once a year? Or two or more years equaling one year? If not, then the type of calendar doesn't matter in order to count the years.

The Roman emperor Julius Caesar set up a solar calendar year, whereas the Jews had a lunar year, which depends on the cycle of the moon. One is based on the sun, and one is based on the moon. Two different types of years.

The type of calendar doesn't matter. Both only count one year at a time. A person can use a Jewish calendar if they wish. The prophecy is counting the years from the destruction of Jerusalem from the Bible. Count the calendar years from that date using whatever calendar you wish.

I think the general consensus is that the destruction of Jerusalem was in 586 BC and not the JW's 607 BC,

Then the Bible is wrong about the 70 years of capture of the Isrealites in Babylon. If you trust the 'general consensus' of the secular historians then the Jews where only in captivity for 40 years.
So which do you believe? Were the Israelites in Babylon for 70 years as the Bible says or not. Because both the Bible and secular historians agree that the Israelites were released in 537 BCE. So you're going to have to pick you think is right about the destruction of Jerusalem, the Bible or your historians.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to tam in post #345]

Are you Sola Scriptura now? Or does Jesus still speak to you in dreams or whatever that you feel is better than scripture?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #345]

Are you Sola Scriptura now? Or does Jesus still speak to you in dreams and such that contradicts scripture?

A - What does any of that have to do with the content in the post, the words from Christ that were speaking to future events, etc? Because it sounds to me like you are just deflecting.


B - Christ speaking (even directly speaking) is ABSOLUTELY supported in what is written. Even HE said it Himself, that His sheep would listen to His voice. Claiming that Christ does not speak is what contradicts what is written, including being in contradiction to what Christ has said Himself. What is written testifies to the fact that Christ promised that His sheep would listen to His voice, and there are multiple examples of just that happening, of Christ speaking to His sheep (to Peter, to Ananias, to Paul, to John, to Phillip, etc.)


Christ is alive. He is the Word of God. The LIVING Word of the LIVING God. Living beings SPEAK, how much more so the One who is the Living WORD of God?


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy