The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

[Checkpoint]

This thread stems from the following exchange between myself and Pinseeker:

PinSeeker wrote:

The millennium of Revelation 20 is not a future event. It was when Jeremiah prophesied, obviously, but is not anymore. Or, to be more exacting, it's no longer merely a future event.

Checkpoint asked:

Then why do so many believers think of it as yet future only?

Pinseeker explained:

For at least two reasons, I think:

1. A basic misunderstanding of Revelation as a whole, and the Millennium of chapter 20 included.

2. Many believers (primarily western believers) have bought into the heresy of the "rapture," which came about in the early 19th century. It's not that they are heretics, it's just that that's all they've ever been exposed to.

That's one take from one school of thought.

Your take may be similar or be completely different.

Please share it here, and tell us why you hold that position.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 29 by myth-one.com]

Checkpoint wrote:
God has never promised "an informed clear choice" for all of "the wicked".

God is just and true:

Quote:
Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. (Revelation 15:3)

All we have to do is accept or reject this gift of eternal life:

Quote:
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deuteronomy 30:19)

If the consequences and possible choices are not clearly set out before the wicked, is that just and true?

That's why the good news must be communicated to all humans who have ever lived.

Otherwise, God is not just & true as advertised.

Nope.

You have defined what to you is just and true on this issue and said, effectively, if God is not going to do this, then He is not just and true; not fair.

Well, God has something to say about that.

Ezekiel 18:

25 Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

Isaiah 55:

8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,� declares the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.…

Romans 9:

18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?�

20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ 
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—
24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Grace and peace.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 41 by Checkpoint]

So you're saying that If the consequences and possible choices are not clearly set out before the wicked -- that's just and true in your eyes.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 41 by Checkpoint]

So you're saying that If the consequences and possible choices are not clearly set out before the wicked -- that's just and true in your eyes.

I am not saying what, in my eyes, my thoughts might or might not be on that matter.

[Checkpoint]

Outside of Revelation there is only one resurrection, not two or more.

It consists of both the saved and the lost; of both believers and unbelievers.

A resurrection is discussed outside of Revelation which involves only the resurrection of believers -- those that are Christ's:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

The resurrection in Revelation involves only nonbelievers.

Not so on both counts.

1 Corinthians 15 is not about unbelievers but believers and their coming resurrection.

Unbelievers are not therefore mentioned.

Paul says the resurrection takes place "at the last trumpet".

Revelation 11:15-19 says that is the 7th trumpet and gives details of what will be happening then, to both believers and unbelievers.

Revelation 20 also has one resurrection, comprising two groups being judged.

Grace and peace.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 25 by myth-one.com]

Where do you get your information?

From scripture, like many of us.

Where do you get yours from?

[JehovahsWitness]

... Satan successfully sealed the scriptures from mankind's understanding in the first three or four pages of the Bible. .

If Satan has sealed the scriptures from being understood, how do you know you have correctly understood Revelation?

Here's a wild & crazy idea.

The scriptures state in several separate verses that anything we pray for, believing that it will be received, then it will be received:

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. (Mark 11:24)

So pray asking God to let you understand the scriptures, believing He will do so.

Then read the scriptures.

Hello myth-one.com, thanks so much for taking the time to answer I appreciate that.

Yes, scriptures they are not sealed for genuine believers, I agree. Satan has indeed blinded the minds of the unbelievers, but throughout history, from Abel to the present time God's spirit has revealed what he wants his people to understand.

If that's the point you were making I wholeheartedly agree. Thanks again for your kind words,

Peace to you and yours,

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES




ps: I do apologise if my post came over harsh or sarcastic, that was not my intention.





Why do some not jnderstand the bible?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 383#964383

[onewithhim]

This thread stems from the following exchange between myself and Pinseeker:

PinSeeker wrote:

The millennium of Revelation 20 is not a future event. It was when Jeremiah prophesied, obviously, but is not anymore. Or, to be more exacting, it's no longer merely a future event.

Checkpoint asked:

Then why do so many believers think of it as yet future only?

Pinseeker explained:

For at least two reasons, I think:

1. A basic misunderstanding of Revelation as a whole, and the Millennium of chapter 20 included.

2. Many believers (primarily western believers) have bought into the heresy of the "rapture," which came about in the early 19th century. It's not that they are heretics, it's just that that's all they've ever been exposed to.

That's one take from one school of thought.

Your take may be similar or be completely different.

Please share it here, and tell us why you hold that position.

The Revelation could not be speaking merely of something that happened in the distant past.

A large part of this book written by John refers to conditions on the earth that have not been fulfilled. Revelation speaks of Babylon the Great being totally destroyed, and we have not seen that yet (chapter 18). To see what "Babylon the Great" refers to, go to the excellent site www.jw.org .

Then Revelation speaks of Jesus and his co-rulers ruling as kings and priests over the earth for 1,000 years. We haven't seen that yet either (Revelation 20:4-6). We haven't seen the Devil and his demons being imprisoned, either (Rev.20:2).

And we certainly haven't seen all evil irradicated and the planet cleaned up and made into the beautiful home it was supposed to be from the time that Adam was created. Check out chapter 21 and 22.

We are still waiting for these things to occur.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 7 by PinSeeker]

PinSeeker, what is really "fantastic" is the website www.jw.org . People searching for truth will not be disappointed.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 9 by myth-one.com]

You've got some things right, but, alas, you are quite a bit off on other things. One is: the dead who will be brought back in the Resurrection promised by Christ are to be brought back to life DURING the thousand-year reign. To get a clearer picture of what will be happening, check out the web-site www.jw.org and you will gain a good, rational, Scriptural knowledge.

[onewithhim]

QUESTION What is the 1000 year rule (sometimes refered to as "the Millennium"?

♦ANSWER Its the period after Jesus destroys all human governments, when he (Jesus) rules over the earth and makes life wonderful for everyone

The Millennium, the 1000 year rule of Christ (also called judgement " day" ) begins directly after Harmageddon ( the period when God kills off all incorigibly wicked people from the earth) and ends with the release of Satan from his 1000 year restriction.

During this 1000 year period Christ will rule with his heavenly government from heaven and on earth, this our planet earth will be transformed into a paradise, the dead will be resurrected to once more be with their loved ones here on earth in renewed physical bodies and peace and harmony will at long, long last be enjoyed by all earths inhabitants.


Hallelujah!


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




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THE MILLENNIUM, PARADISE and ...THE BOOK OF REVELATION

Yes, Jehovah'sWitness, you have explained it superbly. I hope that others will bother to think about what you've said and check out your links.

It is being taught that Revelation 20:5 means that the dead who died in the "first death"---from Abel to my cousin who died this morning---will be resurrected AFTER the Thousand-Year Reign. But such is not the case. (What could the Thousand-Year Reign, also called "Judgment Day," be for, if not to raise back to life the billions who have died and teach them all the truth about God and Christ, if they hadn't had that knowledge?)

That verse means that "the rest of the dead," other than those raised to heaven to rule with Christ, would, after the Millennial Reign, be eligible to maintain their lives forever---thus truly "coming to life." That is: eternal life, which they were deemed worthy of during the Thousand-Year Reign. They were taught the truth, they showed that they accepted it, and they were judged worthy of living forever.

This is quite deep, and we must ask Jehovah for Holy Spirit to really get it. I trust that we are all doing that.