Why does God punish innocent people?

[tryme]

So, here's the thing. If the Bible is the perfect word of God, and leaves no room for guessing, why does God not save babies? Or people who have never even heard of the name Jesus? Or even been out of the jungle for that matter? And what about the mentally ill, who cannot learn your religion? Or how about babies that die before they can even speak? Jesus clearly says that unbelievers, regardless of why they don't believe, will be enjoying their afterlife in hell.

Romans 10:9-10
ok, well what if you are born mute? Or were never instructed in what to believ by no fault of your own besides the country you were born in?

Revelation 21:8
Cowardly? Really? If you're like, an abused child and so are a bit timid, you're going to hell?

[tryme]

[Replying to post 6 by marco]

So nice to hear another voice of reason out here

[tryme]

[Replying to post 7 by JehovahsWitness]

Well I like your theology a little bit better, but if you have the power to do it he would do it immediately. Just like a decent parent - say their baby fell off the swing onto their face and they're bleeding from the eyes nose and mouth.. Does the decent parent sit there and watch them cry a little bit and say well I will fix it in a few minutes? No they get off their butt and Ken to the child immediately. IMMEDIATELY. So either a very basic human parent is significantly more moral and powerful than the one who created humans, or God is just a lazy a hole. Or maybe even evil

[onewithhim]

Paul, as well as Peter, John, all the rest of the Apsotles, Mary, etc., are now in heaven. They were resurrected there in the early 1900s after Jesus took over the rulership of his congregation.

That would be around the time Mary appeared at Fatima, so in all probability she dropped by Portugal on her way to heaven. Why not?

You have compartmentalized "Religion" in an unimportant little box in your mind, as frivolous and stupid.

Not at all. Some people get comfort from religion, so it has a purpose. What you describe SEEMS on the borders of the ridiculous and though some might be happy to uphold such views, I would be extremely reluctant to inform other people if I somehow or other fell to embracing them. It takes courage to entertain such beliefs I think.

When He created humans they were perfect with completely functioning brains. They would never have uttered "ug." I'm sure they would've had something equal to our technology much earlier if they had stuck with Jehovah.

And the fact we DO have our technology, despite Adam, shows what? Adam's crime just caused a delay in advancement? Have you heard of anthropology or palaeontology ? Or are these heretical terms in your belief system?

I responded to your post in my post #76. Would you comment on my reply?

.

[onewithhim]

God doesn't save babies at this point in time (though I'm sure it breaks his heart), because humans long ago gave him the finger and turned their backs on him because they wanted to call their own shots. Humans said, "We want to decide for ourselves what is good or what is bad." They made themselves just like God, living with THEIR OWN rules and regulations. So God let humans go their own way. There is a time limit on this crazy world's insanity, however. God has set a certain point in time to bring all suffering and evil to an end. It is just hard for us to be patient, because it seems like a long time to us.

So like, if you're a judge and this adult comes into your court room cause he was a murderer, you send him to jail? Ok cool
But you also send his infant child and toddler and teenager to jail too? Is that just?

People who have never heard about Jesus or Jehovah, the mentally ill, babies that die---they will all be given the chance to learn in the new system of things under Jesus Christ's rule of a thousand years. (Rev.20:4,6)

This says nothing about what you're mentioning. It only mentions two groups of people, the first being a group of believers that were beheaded, and then the rest of the believers


Jehovah will not have anyone die who has not had a chance to make an informed decision about whether or not they want to submit to His standards (which are not burdensome; I John 5:3)
All this says is that is commands are not burdensome
And if you want everyone to live, and was omnipotent, then he would make it be so and just abolished a whole hell and Satan thing

There is no "afterlife."

Then what is heaven?


There is death and then there is the Resurrection, when everyone who has died will be brought back to life.

Where in the Bible does it say this will happen?

If they are "being brought back to life" isn't that exact definition of afterlife? Life that comes after the usual term of life?
And what that after the thousand year reign?


The dead are conscious of nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5).
"They will have No further reward"
this completely contradicts Matthew 5:12 by the way



.

I like ur theology, but it doesn't seem biblical

It is. I usually cite scriptures along with my comments, so that people can look them up and hopefully see that my theology is biblical.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 6 by marco]

So nice to hear another voice of reason out here

Did you read my reply to his post? Is that not reasonable? That is, if you don't hate God and think He's a cold callous jerk. Right?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 82 by tryme]

Re. tryme's post #82.....Have you been apprised of the Biblical fact that God (1) was accused of lying to A&E by Satan, saying they would not die if they disobeyed, and that they would be able to be like God---living according to THEIR OWN RULES and do just fine without interference from Him? (2) Also that Satan challenged Jehovah by saying this----Humans only worship Jehovah because He gives them things; if He allowed them to undergo difficulties they would ALL curse Him to His face?

(Genesis 3:1-5; Job 2:3-5)

Can you imagine that all of the angels in heaven might have the question in the back of their minds.....could Satan be right? Could mankind be just fine without Jehovah being their Sovereign? It was a monumental issue, and Jehovah wanted it settled for all time. So He allowed Satan a certain amount of time to prove that He, Jehovah, was not fit to rule the universe, AND that mankind would curse Him to His face because they were suffering.

Satan has had over 6,000 years to prove his point. His time is running out. The issue has been settled for all time. The world couldn't be in much more of a mess, and there are people who have chosen NOT to curse God to His face....so Satan has failed in his attempt to rule the world and he was wrong about every person cursing God to His face.

"Be glad you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time." (Revelation 12:12)

But his time is expiring very rapidly in these last days of this system of things.

[McCulloch]

The world couldn't be in much more of a mess, […]

Is this true?

Could the world be in much more of a mess?

[ttruscott]

You seem to have messed up the quotes here but I will give it a try to find your questions that I want to answer...

As well, the perfect word of GOD obviously leaves a lot of room for guessing and your definition of perfect as not having room for guessing is made up and doesn't match what we read in the Bible at all.

The room for guessing comes from the imperfect sinner who is reading it, not from the perfect work itself.

Everyone has heard the gospel of salvation as found in HIS Son, so they are without excuse: Rom 1:20 they have seen the proof of HIS deity and HIS power. Christians also have no problem with this question as the gospel, the good news of the possibility of our salvation from the addicting qualities of evil and the condemnation upon evil in Christ was proclaimed (past tense) to every person under heaven: Colossians 1:23 ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven... Even you...

Ok so tell me where does the illiterate person that lives in the jungle see this information?

The two proofs I am alluding were both given pre-earth in Sheol where we were created as pure spirit before the creation of the physical universe. To my mind, this is the only way the preaching to everyone under heaven and the proof of HIS deity and power by what was made could be fulfilled. No need to worry about the illiterate in the jungle - he is reaping his decison about his choices from his pre-earth life just like all of us.

Right. A) what about the rest of humanity that wasn't present during the creation?

It is my contention that the creation of everyone who was created in HIS image was the first part of creation and no new people have been created since. I reject traducianism that claims that new spirits are created at conception due to our DNA or that GOD creates a new spirit for each new person at birth, both common theories suggested by the 'creation of new people on earth' believers.

B) how can you have a proper relationship with someone you've never heard of?

You can't of course and to think I'm implying we must have is ludicrous.

GOD made HIS claims to be our creator GOD and gave us HIS promises of election and salvation in HIS Son. By making our decision to accept these claims or promises or to reject them, we established by our free will a relationship with HIM as our Saviour and GOD or as our eternal enemy, a relationship based on faith, that is our hope without proof that HE was telling us the truth. In time, those who chose to accept HIM will mature until a full and loving communion called the heavenly marriage can be enjoyed with HIM.

[Zzyzx]

.

or God is just a lazy a hole.

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[onewithhim]

The world couldn't be in much more of a mess, […]

Is this true?

Could the world be in much more of a mess?

Not much, if you are paying attention to what's going on on this planet.