Many Christians consider homosexual practices to be immoral. The forum has multiple threads which include arguments as to whether or not homosexuality should be considered immoral, and even whether this position is supported Biblically.
In this thread, we will take it is a given that homosexuality is immoral.
Under this assumption, what should the response of Christians be to the existence of homosexuality? How should we interact with or treat persons who are homosexuals?
In terms of political society, what sort of laws should Christians support with respect to homosexuality? If there is to be unequal treatment of homosexuals under the law, what is the Biblical basis for this?
Again, arguments concerning the morality of homosexuality are not relevant to the thread. What is relevant is discussion of the possible Christian responses to homosexuality, and what valid rationale there are for these responses.
The Christian Response to Homosexuality
Moderator: Moderators
Post #81
Ahh, maybe this is the problem. You seem to think you can get your answers outside the scriptures, and the scriptures clearly show that it is the preachers that cause MANY MANY MANY MANY problems and their followers that love to hgave it so aid in the process.Easyrider wrote:No church that I know of interprets Jesus' saying the way you believe Joe. Call twenty pastors and see what they all tell you.Joe Blackbird wrote:Did you miss my last 4 posts, or are you deliberately avoiding my questions? I already answered that. It seems that a Christian can both agree with Jesus and disagree with God.
Cheers...
You mistakenly think because there are MANY churches Professing to know Christ that what they teach is true!
No Indeed.
Many examples of God warning us not to follow them but Him Alone!
Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
II Corinthians 11
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Galatians
2 4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Then and yea, NOW TOO:
Matthew
24 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
I John
4 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Mark
13 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Luke
6 26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Post #82
Ahhaa haa haaEasyrider wrote:Actually the qualification in that passage is "until everything is accomplished." Jesus fulfilled the law, so the penalty for violating the law was taken upon Christ at Calvary on the behalf of believers.Joe Blackbird wrote:Yes. It absolutely is. Don't you take the Bible to be the literal word of God? The passage I quoted has Jesus saying that the Law should be followed until 'heaven and earth pass away'.
The new covenant did nothing to over rule or abolish the Moral Laws and Just Judgement / execution of Gods laws.
Galatians
3 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
The Moral Laws WERE in existance BEFORE the covenant as spoken of being passed away, the Moral nature of God does not change, he is the same today as yesterday and yea as alway.
The Moral Laws were in existance even the time of Noah. These same laws were in effect during and after Christ arose from the grave.
Genesis
8 20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
Study scripture out and you will see if you love the turth with your whole heart no matter what it costs.
Actually you should do a very SERIOUS study if the word fulfilled;
and just because something may cover the sin, does not permit one to continue in the sins that are covered.
Find out what this applies to...
Find out what everything is applied to in respect to truth as revealed in the rest of scripture...
That is not saying what you purport it to say.
We must study scripture for what it means not what a translated text may say.
Matthew
5 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Post #83
Joe Blackbird wrote:Easyrider wrote:If America did follow the Laws of God like we did when the country was first founded, they would execute fags just like they executed the first beastality case that came to trial, both animals and the boy doing this crime were put to death as Christians are mandated to carry out.Joe Blackbird wrote: If America did not legally protect homosexuals from hate crimes, it wouldn't just be shadowy groups like the KKK and the Creation movement that hunt and kill gays and you know it. Do you think Pat Robertson wouldn't kill a homosexual if it was legal? Having talked to you at some length Easyrider, I have no doubt that you could NEVER do such a despicable thing. I think there are many Christians who could not. But there are also MANY people out there who are just itching for the opportunity. Gay people are beaten and killed all the time, and the hate that causes it doesn't just come from 'disagreeing with their lifestyle'. It comes from zeal. The same kind of zeal that caused those planes to crash into the WTC, and it doesn't care what religion you belong to- as long as you have a cause that means more to you than your own life.
Fags should not be tortured, just executed.
No provision in Gods Just Kingdom here on earth for torture or being unfair.
Post #84
What is the difference, both are against God.1John2_26 wrote: Do we homosexualize Christianity or Christianize homosexuals?
Your response has true worth.
Don't trust me all you want to; but please answer the question above?
Christianity is always being leavened by the world, why would the fags be any different?
Every Man not of God will be of this world, and seek to change God and his Laws, for you can not have a Kingdom without law, and to destroy law is to destroy God because God is maker of whatever law you follow, so follow mans law and not Gods and you could never be counted among the people of God.
What ever Law you follow, so there is a God there behind the law, be it government or a school.... if it is nit in harmony to God it is against his nature.... be his enemy and get destroyed, Amen!
Re: Good Thread.
Post #85Rationalized away God we see.melikio wrote:This has been an approach I accepted long ago. My main contentions with most Christians are not based upon a desire to have them "approve" of homosexuality or acts related to it.Many Christians consider homosexual practices to be immoral. The forum has multiple threads which include arguments as to whether or not homosexuality should be considered immoral, and even whether this position is supported Biblically.
That can be a helpful perspective, as you have aptly applied in this topic.In this thread, we will take it is a given that homosexuality is immoral.
Well, I've thought about that since I was a boy. And what is interesting, is that I certainly was a "Christian", before I accepted that I was "gay". So, the conflict that some "striaght" Christians believe they feel in accepting a homosexual person "externally", likely doesn't compare to dealing with accepting oneself as a homosexual who happens to finally figure out that being gay isn't just going to fade away (no matter how MUCH you hate yourself as a "Christian").Under this assumption, what should the response of Christians be to the existence of homosexuality? How should we interact with or treat persons who are homosexuals?
And it's funny that so many "Chrisitians" who actually believe that they are laying something HEAVY on a homosexual, using the typical few verses and social rejection techniques...etc., have less than a small clue, that the person they realized or discovered was homosexual, has likely been through more PAIN and SUFFERING than they could possibly imagine. And that is one primary reason that Christians who PLAY GOD in dealing with homosexuals and other sinners, can easily devastate a person's spirit, without much effort at all.
Ocassionally, a homosexual who has suffered as a Christian, will rise from the ashes of his/her life, like a "Phoenix". It seems that most "Christians" who have been taught that is not "right" or "impossible", may end up in a tremendous battle of wit and wills with such a person. So many make the mistake of thinking that being "homosexual" is a simple thing to understand, relate to or change. And that is where some Christians coming DOWN to meet these gay people would help more, than merely stating louder and LOUDER that homosexuality is this/that or just plain wrong.
Ok then; so they/we THINK or believe it is "wrong". Just as this topic suggests, it truly IS time that we/they think about how Christians should treat or deal with those PEOPLE we know to be or believe are "homosexual".
Christians definitely SHOULDN'T apply uneven measure to homosexuals. There are other sins which compare sexually, that heterosexuals basically find to be more readily forgivable than homosexual behavior. Some of the answers for why that is, are better explained by a sociologist, than a theologian. But it needs to be understood (starting now, would be as good a time as any), one way or the other. And I believe there certainly IS a point where the overly-harsh treament of ANY sinner, is a sin (in and of itself). "Christians" may be "comissioned" by God, but they are not "God" Himself; they aren't perfect judges nor perfected to such a degree that they can condemn another human being (as many do homosexual people).In terms of political society, what sort of laws should Christians support with respect to homosexuality? If there is to be unequal treatment of homosexuals under the law, what is the Biblical basis for this?
Again, arguments concerning the morality of homosexuality are not relevant to the thread.
Be sure to ENFORCE that point; some people are going to have a hard time understanding that their perception of the "wrongness" of (or dislike of) homosexuality, is not the same as addressing the issues surounding the PEOPLE who are (or happen to be) homosexual.
The Bible can provide a moderate and compassionate form of guidance in dealing with "sin". Most of the reasonable postitions are somehwere toward the "middle", and likely not at the extremes which have certainly ADDED to the problems we are directly and indirectly addressing here.What is relevant is discussion of the possible Christian responses to homosexuality, and what valid rationale there are for these responses.
-Mel-
The sheelpe are not all stupid, some of us can see.
Anytime man (you) try to change God, that man is antichrist.
You fit the bill just nicely! Stop attempting to teach humanism doctrines.
Either repent or perish!
Post #86
Oh I see, yet another moderated antichrist group posing as a bible believer...McCulloch wrote:Moderator Intervention
Scrotum,
Your direct reference to 1John with regard to discriminatory violence is uncivil and uncalled for.
Scrotum wrote:Well, If They are TRUE CHRISTIANS(TM), they would want to stone the homosexuals to death......
I think thats it.. Bun the body's perhaps, but i leave details to John.
If the Bible says Stone them, and your heart don't fall the same way, that means that your heart and Gods heart are not in line / agreement.
Gods ways and your ways are not the same, so better to get to know God first.
Discriminatory violence, what's wrong with being discriminatory ?
Oh, do you mean a discriminatory violence, not in line with your doctrine -A mans doctrine? a discriminatory violence that is in line with the True God of the Bible and opposed to mans ways, yea, this hurts your doctrine and gives it no merit.
Post #87
1John2_26 wrote:Not Anywhere!1John wrote: The Christian Response to Homosexuality is: "Not here."
Not outside your City or over seas, not under the water or upon the moon.
NoPlace, Period... and if caught, swift execution.
My only thing is how?
With actual stones?
What about Bullets? Would they not be the modern and humane rendition of a stone that would swiftly deal with the abomination?
I believe a small firing Squad would be in order, and please - No Blanks allowed! -- That would be unGodly!
The Kingdome is HERE and it will be rulled over with Christ as Head with the Moral laws intact, what do you think will happen when Christ Sits Here as the King of Kings that he is and true Judgement is Executed?
Will Fags then be allowed to do what they want? No, Indeed the obvious answer is NO, God will not allow perversity to flourish, nor say even live.
Fall in line to Gods laws now and rend your heart to anything contrary...
Post #88
No, not at all... its a matter of following Gods Law, his Will, doing so lawfully.Cathar1950 wrote:Interesting questions micatala.
Should Christians attack? Should they attack first sort of like a preemptive strike? For a start I don't think any one should be attacking anyone.For example, what supports the position that Christians should live and let live unless they are attacked? In addition, what constitutes an attack and what should be the response if attacked?
One relevant passage of course would be Jesus saying 'if your enemy strikes you on the cheek, offer him the other cheek.' THis suggest the response to an attack is to offer to be attacked again. Certainly there is nothing here to support the idea that Christians should respond to an attack with a counter attack.
It also should be open for debate and civil tolerance, understanding and equality. If churches as communities want to separate themselves fine. They won't have any gays, just people acting gay. (I mean this the way a South park kid means gay and nothing much to do with homosexuality).
What is nice is you can always start another Christian church or denomination or find one already established and open.
Change it from in if you want but don't feel bad if you give up. Sometimes it is better to just walk away and not look back.
There is no lolerance to extend a life sentance when there is a mandate of death to be executed.
We are to have compassion, not excuse, love, not hate for God or man by allowing the evil to continue.
Re: How should we be treated?
Post #89You should know the answer! God directs you to the proper and Christian method in dealing with them, execution.melikio wrote:The key folks, is not paying so much attention to those who TALK "good", but imitating those who DO good.
If homosexuality is not "good" (in your heart and mind) then don't DO it (yourself). By the same token, if one believes that treating homosexual people "badly" as they have often been is a good thing, I'd like to see where the Bible supports that.
Then, I'd like to see most specifically, what the Bible actually "encourages" behaviorally, as it relates to dealing with homosexuals and/or other sinners.
You see, one thing I have absolute certitude about is that some who believe they are doing "good" (in God's name) really aren't. And the same grace that keep them from being worthy of death (where they stand), is the SAME grace that can deal gently with homosexual people period. I've seen it from "Christians" and I seen some withold such grace (due to their own perceptions or religious beliefs).
I hope that with God's influence, the honest and open thinkers and many Christians continue this conversation; I believe it will get closer to the heart of the matter (in due time). To me, one of the most important questions about homosexuality (in Christendom and civil law) DOES eventually boil down to the premise of this thread.
How should "Christian" people actually "treat" homosexuals?
-Mel-
No do you men in our present degraded and immoral society as it exists today, that perhaps better worded is what your looking for?
How should we interact with a fag in the modern world?
Post #90
Your assuming "orthodox" is 100% scriptural!1John2_26 wrote:Easyrider and any other Christians reading and posting here, I do apologize for being sarcastic in this thread. I will endeavor to present my point of view with orthodox textual support (with no further sarcasm on my part) from now on.Yes Amen. The fruit of Galatians 5:22 but it doesn't stop at just 22:
Quote:
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
See the comma?
Quote:
23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Looks like I need to repent here.
The Christian Response to Homosexuality must be orthodox in apologia, while "contending for the faith."
That, is no laughing matter.
or at least your flavor of it today is...
when you have the witnesses, the judgement is supposed to be brought forth
Do you agree or disagree that Man today should carry out God Laws?
