Tithes

[Cashro]

I have been very interested in this "Tithe" idea ever since my sister told me that she gives 10% of her and her husband's TOTAL income to the church. This Boggles my mind, My sister is a scientist and her Husband is an Engineer. They make quite a bit of money, so a donation now and then to help out a place they attend every week or so wpuld be fine. But, for them to be duped into believing that they must give 10% of thier income to the church in order to recieve blessings from God is just inane to me. I can not undestand how a scientist and an engineer, both of whom are incrediably intelligent, would just give away 10% of thier income because they are told it is written in the bible. The word "Tithe" appeas 38 times in 32 verses in both the old and new testaments of the King James Verion of the Bible. All I could find in any of these references is that "Tithes" were given unto God, and not unto a priest, or paster, or anyother Man Of God. Where and how are they used? I could understand a community coming together and raising money for a leaky roof in thier church or new pews or organs or something but as far as a mandatory giving, I think that it is merely an interpretation, in order to recieve more money (Collection Plates) than they already do. I mean I knew a pastor who drove around in a brand new Caddilac Escalade, put 3 kids through college and live in a near mansion. Unless this pastor is selling illegal drugs on the side I would say that this Tithe is going into his pocket. I'm sure the government doesn't tax the Tithes, I don't know that for a fact, but I can imagine they don't. If Anyone could help explain where exactly, in any holy book, it says that one would need to give 10% to thier priest and not unto God himself I'd really appreciate it. To me, I was given 2 passages by a mormon I was debating on another site, she said Genesis 28:22 (KJ Ver.), and proverb 3:9 (KJ Ver.). Now Tithe is not listed ineither of these passages but my interpretation of

"I will surely give the tenth unto thee."

, indicates the tenth commandment and not a Tithe. If someone could help me Understand and possibly PROVE where tithes are given unto preists I would be greatly humbled.[/b]

[chachynga]

I would assume it's 10% of the gross.

Cashro, you're not making much sense. I already explained why tithes today are usually monetary.
As for the church owning a tenth of my home - how did I get that home? Say I earned a certain amount of money, first I gave 10% of that money, then the rest of that money on a home. If I then gave a tenth of that home, I'd be giving 19% of my income.
Then you ask where the pastor gets his money?
And I already told you being a pastor is not just a "Sunday job" - it's full-time.

Hannah Joy

if the pastor cant pull in enough revenue from the congregation for whatever reason, he should make tents like Paul.

Hint hint.... no one said you are sure to get rich being a preacher, but this I can say, that you will certainly have wealth in this life beyond measures if you sell the stupid people whatever they want to hear with itchy ears.

Sell man his own made religion and you will be paid, show him truth and the remnant will love you and the rest will hate you.

Hint hint!

[chachynga]

It seems the discussion assumes tithes are monetary.
My understanding is it is 10% of all one has. Time, talent etc. The money angle is rather narrow.
Any reason I’m not right?

tithe is on increase


Deuteronomy
14 22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.


Increase Less operation expenses if you have a tractor trailor for instance, and your Fuel bill was 1200 bux a week you certainly would not include that overhead.

[chachynga]

Still no one has explained to me where priests are to be given the tithes, they walk aroud the subject but no oone can point out a specific passage where priests are to recieve these and not God. I would really be interested in knowing if thithes have ever been meant o reciee the tithes, or if the priests merely interperet it that way so then can literally "steal" a tenth of your income. I mean if ten people gave the priest a tithe he'd be makin about $50,000 a year. for a sunday job, that to me is totally insane. I am completely bewildered.

A good priest is Gods Minister, he is in effect god because he is a ruler/Judge, if he be Godly...
A servant is worthy of his hire!

Thou shall not muzzle the Ox as he treddeth!

Study it out, I am right as I usually am.

[chachynga]

Ok if the church is using the money to spread the word of catholicism or any other religion, then why don't they take a tenth of your blood as a sacrifice to God, or a tenth of your home. I can not for the life of me figure out why tithes are restricted to monetary values. Does the church own a tenth of you or your children, I would hope not. So why then would it own a tenth of your income and nothing else. It makes no sense to me that a Church or Priest could survive on simply preaching on a sunday. Where does his money come from? I have nothing against religion, but poor people who feel that they need to give ten percent of their measly income to the church is absolutly ludicrous. Could someone please explain all this to me. . .

go study the old testament and stop complaining

it is clear to anyone that reads it that the tithe is in whatever means you REAP

if you are a farmer of corn, you reap in bushels of corn, you tithe in corn, yet there are also laws concerning conversion of that tithe.... anyhow, under circumstances the tithe can not be made in that measure and there are ways to do otherwise and still be biblical..... can cost much if you dont too...

Anyway's if you are a country doctor and get paid in chickens and rice and beans, your in for more of a pickle than the average Joe.... so tithe on the value in excess of your needs and travel expenses etc.

Every situation is different.

Just Give in the extra you have as increase.

[chachynga]

I’ll give you something else to think about.
Is that 10% of the gross or 10% of the net?

depends on the circumstances

[BeHereNow]

What circumstances?
I see nothing about circumstances in the Bible. What am I misssing?

[chachynga]

What circumstances?
I see nothing about circumstances in the Bible. What am I misssing?

If your a stockbroker and you are someones employee and have your online fees and stuff paid for, you'd not subtract any expenses, if you are in business, any pure business expenses, as per my example I believe I gave, about the tractor truck driver... his gas bill is several thousand dollars a month...

God knows you have to eat.


But normal eating expenses you'd incur anyhow.... take all things into account and try to be fair....



Capiche!

[BeHereNow]

If your a stockbroker and you are someones employee and have your online fees and stuff paid for, you'd not subtract any expenses, if you are in business, any pure business expenses, as per my example I believe I gave, about the tractor truck driver... his gas bill is several thousand dollars a month...

I see. An interesting spin on the subject. Unfortunately it lacks the biblical basis I was looking for. I suppose that’s because there is no biblical basis, which was my point. You have given us your opinion on the topic, and I did the same.
My opinion is that the bible does not say if it is gross or net. You have shown no evidence to the contrary.
I would say it is up to the individual to decide what he wants to give, but the bible asks for 10% of all that is in my stewardship.
If I am an independent tractor trailer driver, I determine what I charge for each load. This is based on my “expences”, such as fuel, tags & fees, rig payment, maintenance, etc. It seems to me a steadfast Christian, living by biblical mandates, would factor in, right at the beginning, the top 10% for God. For a serious Christian this is just another “cost of doing business”.
The bible dos not ask for 10% of all that is left over after I meet my needs. It asks for 10% of all that is in my stewardship.

I suppose many Christians do not give 10% of their time in service to their God for just the reasons you mention. When they look at their schedule there just isn’t enough time left over for that.
First they say, well, I need to sleep 8 hours a day, can’t count that.
I have to work 40 hours a week, Can’t count that.
Drive time to and from, can't count that.
I spend time with my children, can’t count that.
Before you know it, time is gone, nothing left over but a few hours for church on Sunday.
An interesting spin.

Like may things, the bible gives some good general suggestions on how to live, but when it come to the details, the bible is rather silent. It is up to each individual to apply the Word to their life, each as he will.

Some Christians say “God, 10% of all that I have is yours.”
Others say, “God, I’ll give you 10% of all that is left after I meet my serious needs.”

God knows you have to eat.

Man does not live by bread alone.

Sabe?

[chachynga]

If your a stockbroker and you are someones employee and have your online fees and stuff paid for, you'd not subtract any expenses, if you are in business, any pure business expenses, as per my example I believe I gave, about the tractor truck driver... his gas bill is several thousand dollars a month...

I see. An interesting spin on the subject. Unfortunately it lacks the biblical basis I was looking for. I suppose that’s because there is no biblical basis, which was my point. You have given us your opinion on the topic, and I did the same.
My opinion is that the bible does not say if it is gross or net. You have shown no evidence to the contrary.
I would say it is up to the individual to decide what he wants to give, but the bible asks for 10% of all that is in my stewardship.
If I am an independent tractor trailer driver, I determine what I charge for each load. This is based on my “expences”, such as fuel, tags & fees, rig payment, maintenance, etc. It seems to me a steadfast Christian, living by biblical mandates, would factor in, right at the beginning, the top 10% for God. For a serious Christian this is just another “cost of doing business”.
The bible dos not ask for 10% of all that is left over after I meet my needs. It asks for 10% of all that is in my stewardship.

I suppose many Christians do not give 10% of their time in service to their God for just the reasons you mention. When they look at their schedule there just isn’t enough time left over for that.
First they say, well, I need to sleep 8 hours a day, can’t count that.
I have to work 40 hours a week, Can’t count that.
Drive time to and from, can't count that.
I spend time with my children, can’t count that.
Before you know it, time is gone, nothing left over but a few hours for church on Sunday.
An interesting spin.

Like may things, the bible gives some good general suggestions on how to live, but when it come to the details, the bible is rather silent. It is up to each individual to apply the Word to their life, each as he will.

Some Christians say “God, 10% of all that I have is yours.”
Others say, “God, I’ll give you 10% of all that is left after I meet my serious needs.”

God knows you have to eat.

Man does not live by bread alone.

Sabe?

And you are a fool or a liar or a deceiver or an ignorant demon.

You are certainly putting words and phrases into my mouth and my post that I did not say. And I am biblically based. You however can't even discern my posts. If you had, you would not have written this garbage!

Try Again.

This time without being a False Witness.

[McCulloch]

Moderator Warning

Chachynga, please re-read the rules.
1. No personal attacks of any sort are allowed.
14. In general, all members are to be civil and respectful.

There are better ways to disagree with another debater than to call him a fool, liar, ignorant or demon. BeHereNow has made the assertion that the Bible defines the tithe a certain way. If you disagree, provide evidence that supports your point-of-view. If he has misrepresented your view, simply state which points he has misrepresented and restate accurately what you believe.

It is always more civil to pretend to believe that someone who misrepresents your point of view is honestly mistaken rather than deliberately being deceptive. It is also more civil to pretend to believe that if someone has not properly understood your post, that you have not been adequately clear in communicating your thoughts.

And you are a fool or a liar or a deceiver or an ignorant demon.

You are certainly putting words and phrases into my mouth and my post that I did not say. And I am biblically based. You however can't even discern my posts. If you had, you would not have written this garbage!

Try Again.

This time without being a False Witness.