WHY DOES God HIDE HIMSELF.

[Benoni]

Pro. 25: 2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

I love the above verse and find such an awesome deepness in God in things that are hidden. I find the Bible full of hidden mysteries (Greek Sacred Secret) and what amazes me are some many brothers and sisters in the Lord actually believe there are no mysteries in scripture.

God Himself hides Himself from man. This was not the case in the Garden of Eden; but once man became naked our perception of God changed. When Adam died; he did not die at that moment as we all know death. He died phyically at the age of 930 years old. But what did happened is he died spiritually at that moment he became naked which has nothing to do with not having clothing in the natural sense.

You see a dead man cannot see, hear, touch etc. A spiritual dead man is dead to the realm of the spirit and cannot see, hear, touch God as Adam did in the garden.

[Lux]

So no I do not assume anything about sciripture; the Bible simple is divine.

Prove that the Bible is divine. Please note that using the Bible to prove the Bible is invalid.

[byhisgrace]

I find it hard to understand how anyone can believe in the literal truth of Genesis, or much of the Bible for that matter. If those stories were in another context, other than the Bible, they would be seen as the myths and legends I believe them to be.

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Hi Misty: I just felled compelled at this point to share about what I know about the Bible, just to make some points outside the "religious realm" as much as possible.
If the Bible were just another book, imo …….. there would not be these huge discussions about it, there would not be an entire country built upon it …… there would not be lives changed by it …… there would not be such controversy about it…… simply - because just another book would not be important enough.
Because of its importance and its claim to be the Word of God, the Bible has suffered more vicious attacks and attempts to destroy it than any other book in history. The Bible has withstood and outlasted early Roman emperors, communist dictators, and modern day atheists and agnostics. It is still the most widley published book in the world.
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Consider these facts:
1. The unity of the bible: 66 individual books, written on 3 continents, in 3 different languages over a period of approx. 1500 years, more than 40 authors from many different walks of life ……. Yet, the Bible remains one unified book from beginning to end without (scholar proven) contradictions. This unity is unique from all other books, and is evidence of the divine origin of the words which God moved men to record.
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2. Prophecies: the Bible contains hundreds of detailed prophecies for indiv. Nations, cities and mankind and over 300 prophecies about the Messiah, extremely detailed unlike other religious books or those by Nostradamus. There is no logical way to explain the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible other than by divine origin.
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3. Integrity of its human authors. The fact that they were willing to die, often an excruciating death (no cowardly quick suicide bomb, killing others), but at the cruel and sadistic hand of other people. Just think about the proclaimed resurrection of Jesus Christ. The apostles watched Jesus die on the cross and ran to a house to an “upper room’, probably depressed, lost, hurt, the One they trusted, just died, left them, their faith begins to falter, etc…… then - the resurrected Jesus joins them in that room. Now, they go from depressed, lost and hurt ….. to die for their believes!! HE ROSE alright. Nobody would willingly be torn to pieces by lions and wild dogs for their believes (historically true) unless THEY KNEW something for absolutely sure … that Jesus rose from the dead! They SAW HIM! Christianity is the only Religion, where the creator (God) dies for the sins of His own creations….WOW! ….I think that’s called love….meditate on that !
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4. A lot of historical archaeological evidence exists today.
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These maybe enough points to entice the truly curious to read and study the Bible, with an OPEN mind.
For the rest, I wonder if this saying might fit: “I have made up my mind, don’t come to me with the truth�
Maybe something to think about.

[ChaosBorders]

I find it hard to understand how anyone can believe in the literal truth of Genesis, or much of the Bible for that matter. If those stories were in another context, other than the Bible, they would be seen as the myths and legends I believe them to be.

-
Hi Misty: I just felled compelled at this point to share about what I know about the Bible, just to make some points outside the "religious realm" as much as possible.
If the Bible were just another book, imo …….. there would not be these huge discussions about it, there would not be an entire country built upon it …… there would not be lives changed by it …… there would not be such controversy about it…… simply - because just another book would not be important enough.

By this reasoning, the Qu'ran is also not just another book. Though I personally value the Bible, this form of reasoning is not going to hold weight here for anyone who does not already believe the Bible is true.

[byhisgrace]

I find it hard to understand how anyone can believe in the literal truth of Genesis, or much of the Bible for that matter. If those stories were in another context, other than the Bible, they would be seen as the myths and legends I believe them to be.

-
Hi Misty: I just felled compelled at this point to share about what I know about the Bible, just to make some points outside the "religious realm" as much as possible.
If the Bible were just another book, imo …….. there would not be these huge discussions about it, there would not be an entire country built upon it …… there would not be lives changed by it …… there would not be such controversy about it…… simply - because just another book would not be important enough.

By this reasoning, the Qu'ran is also not just another book. Though I personally value the Bible, this form of reasoning is not going to hold weight here for anyone who does not already believe the Bible is true.

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Well, this paragraph you quoted does not stand alone. There was more said about the bible.
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This, however, maybe a good example what is done with the bible; it is being disected, portions taking out of context whereas the bible needs to be seen and understood as a UNITY. This is part of it's mystery, the unity of the Bible.

[Zzyzx]

.

Consider these facts:
1. The unity of the bible: 66 individual books, written on 3 continents, in 3 different languages over a period of approx. 1500 years, more than 40 authors from many different walks of life ……. Yet, the Bible remains one unified book from beginning to end without (scholar proven) contradictions. This unity is unique from all other books, and is evidence of the divine origin of the words which God moved men to record.

By your criteria the Encyclopedia Britannica shows much more evidence of “divine origin� than the bible – except in terms of age. More continents, more writers, more languages more “books� (Chapters) and less contradiction.

2. Prophecies: the Bible contains hundreds of detailed prophecies for indiv. Nations, cities and mankind and over 300 prophecies about the Messiah, extremely detailed unlike other religious books or those by Nostradamus. There is no logical way to explain the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible other than by divine origin.

“Prophesies� made after the events are not evidence of foreknowledge or “divine origin�. What is the date of production of the earliest “bible� and by and for whom was it compiled and edited?

3. Integrity of its human authors. The fact that they were willing to die, often an excruciating death

Since the identity of bible writers is NOT known (beyond names assigned much later), exactly how can details of their death be known?

Just think about the proclaimed resurrection of Jesus Christ.

There are TALES by followers that a dead body came back to life after days in the grave – tales written decades or generations after the supposed event – nothing more – only the religious promotional literature containing the stories.

If a modern cult leader died and his followers claimed to have seen him afterward before he levitated into the sky, not very many people would likely believe them. But if the tales are told by Bronze Age storytellers in a book deemed “holy� by religious promoters, they are believed.

The apostles watched Jesus die on the cross and ran to a house to an “upper room’,

So goes the tale. Can you show evidence that the tale is true (using something other than the tale itself)?

HE ROSE alright.

Evidence please. Not conjecture. Not more tales. Not opinions.

Nobody would willingly be torn to pieces by lions and wild dogs for their believes (historically true) unless THEY KNEW something for absolutely sure

Many Japanese soldiers died willingly in WWII believing their emperor, Hirohito, was divine. They also “KNEW� he was god – and often died horrible deaths in that belief. Does that mean that Hirohito was divine?

… that Jesus rose from the dead! They SAW HIM! Christianity is the only Religion, where the creator (God) dies for the sins of His own creations….WOW! ….I think that’s called love….meditate on that !

That is a pretty strong selling point used by Christianity for recruitment. Kindly cite evidence to verify that it is true.

4. A lot of historical archaeological evidence exists today.

None of which is evidence of the “divinity of Christ� or the “resurrection� – ESSENTIAL elements of Christianity.

What “historical archeological evidence� are you willing to bring forth – rather than just suggesting such things exist.

These maybe enough points to entice the truly curious to read and study the Bible, with an OPEN mind.

Many here have read the bible with an open mind. It is a gross error to assume otherwise. Many who read the bible realize that it is the word of humans writing their thoughts about “gods� – and writing from the ignorance and superstition characteristic of their era.

[Scotracer]

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Benoni you are entitled to your assumptions of course, but that is all they are, imo.

I did not assume anything I quoted scripture.

Did you assume that "scripture" was meaningful, truthful or accurate?

No. I know it.

Assume-to take as granted or true.

You do, in fact, assume that Bible is meaningful, truthful and accurate. You assume that of anything you claim to know, same as everyone else.

I assume nothing about the Bible; you may for you do not “know� God’s Word; or God obviously. You think it just another religious book; it is not.

Many worldly see the words and pages of this book that is full of man made religious bias and man made errors; but even that was purposed by God because the Bible is a book not intended for you, in fact it is a book written only to God’s called out.

Those who have eyes to see; see where man inserted his bias and they are pale compared to the deep mysteries with in its pages. You see the Bible is a great big spiritual puzzle full of hidden keys and mysteries that the earth man cannot even begin to see.


The Bible is full of mysteries (mystery in the Greek language means a sacred secret and used 27 times in NT); The Bible pages are full hidden spiritual mysteries especially when you consider parables types and shadows, patterns not even including the culture and language barriers. The Bible is the blue print of truth; the Holy Spirit within us is the engineer or architect who is the only source of interpreting it.

God’s Word is hidden for many reasons; that is why there are so many creed, religion and understandings in the Bible.

So no I do not assume anything about sciripture; the Bible simple is divine.

To know something is to be able to demonstrate it. If you 'know' god exists then you must be able to show it to us. Can you?

You are taking a story book written by many different people in different times and in different styles and claiming it is somehow a singular whole. Even though it contradicts written history and science. Your blinders must be huge.

[Benoni]

So no I do not assume anything about sciripture; the Bible simple is divine.

Prove that the Bible is divine. Please note that using the Bible to prove the Bible is invalid.

You are not a spiritual man it would be a waist of your time and mine. I would never try not to use the Bible to prove the Bible is divine. It is spiritual;what other tool is there.

Now if you were a spiritual person we could go so much deeper; but you are not..

[Benoni]

I find it hard to understand how anyone can believe in the literal truth of Genesis, or much of the Bible for that matter. If those stories were in another context, other than the Bible, they would be seen as the myths and legends I believe them to be.

-
Hi Misty: I just felled compelled at this point to share about what I know about the Bible, just to make some points outside the "religious realm" as much as possible.
If the Bible were just another book, imo …….. there would not be these huge discussions about it, there would not be an entire country built upon it …… there would not be lives changed by it …… there would not be such controversy about it…… simply - because just another book would not be important enough.

By this reasoning, the Qu'ran is also not just another book. Though I personally value the Bible, this form of reasoning is not going to hold weight here for anyone who does not already believe the Bible is true.

I debated a Muslin and he admitted the Qu'ran did not have spiritual patterns and hidden mysteries; Bible is divine the Qu'ran is not.

[Benoni]

.

Benoni you are entitled to your assumptions of course, but that is all they are, imo.

I did not assume anything I quoted scripture.

Did you assume that "scripture" was meaningful, truthful or accurate?

No. I know it.

Assume-to take as granted or true.

You do, in fact, assume that Bible is meaningful, truthful and accurate. You assume that of anything you claim to know, same as everyone else.

I assume nothing about the Bible; you may for you do not “know� God’s Word; or God obviously. You think it just another religious book; it is not.

Many worldly see the words and pages of this book that is full of man made religious bias and man made errors; but even that was purposed by God because the Bible is a book not intended for you, in fact it is a book written only to God’s called out.

Those who have eyes to see; see where man inserted his bias and they are pale compared to the deep mysteries with in its pages. You see the Bible is a great big spiritual puzzle full of hidden keys and mysteries that the earth man cannot even begin to see.


The Bible is full of mysteries (mystery in the Greek language means a sacred secret and used 27 times in NT); The Bible pages are full hidden spiritual mysteries especially when you consider parables types and shadows, patterns not even including the culture and language barriers. The Bible is the blue print of truth; the Holy Spirit within us is the engineer or architect who is the only source of interpreting it.

God’s Word is hidden for many reasons; that is why there are so many creed, religion and understandings in the Bible.

So no I do not assume anything about sciripture; the Bible simple is divine.

To know something is to be able to demonstrate it. If you 'know' god exists then you must be able to show it to us. Can you?

You are taking a story book written by many different people in different times and in different styles and claiming it is somehow a singular whole. Even though it contradicts written history and science. Your blinders must be huge.

God is a spirit and you are not; He is more then what the literal world is; but He is a spirit. For you to see and understand God you need to be a spiritual man; if you are not a spiritual man you will never see anything that is spiritual. That simple.

All your uman intellect, reason means nothing to God. Yes please call it a story book; it has nothing to do with written history and science; it is spiritual.

Can't help you.

[Zzyzx]

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I debated a Muslin and he admitted the Qu'ran did not have spiritual patterns and hidden mysteries; Bible is divine the Qu'ran is not.

Do you present your ONE Muslim debater as representative of the world's 1.2 Billion Muslims?

So no I do not assume anything about sciripture; the Bible simple is divine.

Prove that the Bible is divine. Please note that using the Bible to prove the Bible is invalid.

You are not a spiritual man it would be a waist of your time and mine.

Then you are wasting everyone's time in this sub-forum preaching spirituality to the spiritual. That is properly done in TD&D or HH subforums. This is a DEBATE subforum where substantiation of claims is required and the bible is not considered authoritative.

I would never try not to use the Bible to prove the Bible is divine. It is spiritual;what other tool is there.

If you lack the tools to demonstrate that what you say is true, perhaps you should not make claims (and might consider why believe something that cannot be shown to be true).

Now if you were a spiritual person we could go so much deeper; but you are not..

Then you should take your preaching to TD&D or HH.