Jews and True Christians worship exactly the same God

[McCulloch]

True Christians (that hold to the beliefs and teaching of Jesus and the first century congregation) worship exactly the same God as the Jews. YHWH (Yaweh or in English "Jehovah").

Questions for debate:

1. Did Jews and Jesus worship exactly the same God?
2. Did Jews and the first century Christians worship exactly the same God?
3. Did the first century congregation worship exactly the same God as most modern Christians?
4. Do Jews and most modern Christians worship exactly the same God?
5. [bonus question] Is the god of Islam the same God or a different one?

[led by the spirit]

It would seem you know the answer to all that. That being Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn....................

[Joshua Patrick]

Paul claims to have been a Jew and a Jewish scholar. There are many who, for very good reason, dispute his claim.

St.Paul was a Jew (Ethnic and Religious), and a radical Pharisee, who went around killing Christians. He was a chief student, a top student, an expert of the Law, one of the greatest students of the greatest Rabbi at that time, Gamaliel. He was a Jew and a Jewish Scholar.

[Goat]

Paul claims to have been a Jew and a Jewish scholar. There are many who, for very good reason, dispute his claim.

St.Paul was a Jew (Ethnic and Religious), and a radical Pharisee, who went around killing Christians. He was a chief student, a top student, an expert of the Law, one of the greatest students of the greatest Rabbi at that time, Gamaliel. He was a Jew and a Jewish Scholar.

As has been discussed here quite a few times.. there are plenty of reasons to be doubtful of the claim Paul was Jewish. There certainly is no indication that he was very education in Judaism.. and there definitely is not indication he was a Jewish scholar, despite the claims about him.

[McCulloch]

Paul claims to have been a Jew and a Jewish scholar. There are many who, for very good reason, dispute his claim.

St. Paul was a Jew (Ethnic and Religious), and a radical Pharisee, who went around killing Christians. He was a chief student, a top student, an expert of the Law, one of the greatest students of the greatest Rabbi at that time, Gamaliel. He was a Jew and a Jewish Scholar.

Saul of Tarsus aka Paul, makes the claim that he was a Pharisee (the strictest sect of the Jews), a persecutor of Christians, a student of Gamaliel, a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, a scholar and an expert in Law. He also claimed to have spoken with the resurrected Jesus, made a trip into heaven and to have channeled the very words of God.
Since his writings are considered Christian Scriptures, then in this sub-forum (Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma), that will be considered evidence in spite of the evidence and scholarship to the contrary.

In this subforum, the Bible is considered an authoritative source. Challenges to the authority of the Bible are not allowed here.

[Goat]

Paul claims to have been a Jew and a Jewish scholar. There are many who, for very good reason, dispute his claim.

St. Paul was a Jew (Ethnic and Religious), and a radical Pharisee, who went around killing Christians. He was a chief student, a top student, an expert of the Law, one of the greatest students of the greatest Rabbi at that time, Gamaliel. He was a Jew and a Jewish Scholar.

Saul of Tarsus aka Paul, makes the claim that he was a Pharisee (the strictest sect of the Jews), a persecutor of Christians, a student of Gamaliel, a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, a scholar and an expert in Law. He also claimed to have spoken with the resurrected Jesus, made a trip into heaven and to have channeled the very words of God.
Since his writings are considered Christian Scriptures, then in this sub-forum (Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma), that will be considered evidence in spite of the evidence and scholarship to the contrary.

In this subforum, the Bible is considered an authoritative source. Challenges to the authority of the Bible are not allowed here.

Yet, we can quote the bible to show where Paul says he used deceit.. including the deceit of being Jewish.


1 Cor 9:19-22

9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (9:20-22) "I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
Paul syas he'll do whatever it takes to get people to believe in order to save them from a God who will torture them for their honest disbelief.
9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

[fewwillfindit]

Paul claims to have been a Jew and a Jewish scholar. There are many who, for very good reason, dispute his claim.

St. Paul was a Jew (Ethnic and Religious), and a radical Pharisee, who went around killing Christians. He was a chief student, a top student, an expert of the Law, one of the greatest students of the greatest Rabbi at that time, Gamaliel. He was a Jew and a Jewish Scholar.

Saul of Tarsus aka Paul, makes the claim that he was a Pharisee (the strictest sect of the Jews), a persecutor of Christians, a student of Gamaliel, a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, a scholar and an expert in Law. He also claimed to have spoken with the resurrected Jesus, made a trip into heaven and to have channeled the very words of God.
Since his writings are considered Christian Scriptures, then in this sub-forum (Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma), that will be considered evidence in spite of the evidence and scholarship to the contrary.

In this subforum, the Bible is considered an authoritative source. Challenges to the authority of the Bible are not allowed here.

Yet, we can quote the bible to show where Paul says he used deceit.. including the deceit of being Jewish.


1 Cor 9:19-22

9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (9:20-22) "I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
Paul syas he'll do whatever it takes to get people to believe in order to save them from a God who will torture them for their honest disbelief.
9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

I understand why an atheist would be predisposed to choose, of the two ways of interpreting this passage, the most defamatory and least likely rendering. However, allow me to explain the obvious interpretation, which also happens to be the ingenuous one.

The passage in question is:

19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

I'll take each verse and offer what I consider to be the obvious interpretation as exemplified by the context and the rest of the New Testament.

===============================================

For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.

Paul is saying here that although he has the right to draw a wage from preaching the gospel, he is waiving that right so as not to put an obstacle is the way of the Gospel of Christ. This explanation is clearly supported by reading the verses that immediately precede the passage in question.

Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord? 2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

3 This is my defense to those who would examine me. 4 Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, [1] as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?

8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.� Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10 Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?

Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

15 But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing these things to secure any such provision. For I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of my ground for boasting. 16 For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward, but if not of my own will, I am still entrusted with a stewardship. 18 What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

===============================================

To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.

Paul would become as culturally and socially Jewish as need be in order to win the Jews. He knew the culture intimately. Since this sub-forum presupposes the validity of the Bible, then we know that he was, in fact, a Jew. This is not in dispute. So he can't mean, "I am not a Jew, but I'll pretend to be one to win them." This is not an option. So obviously he was able to walk the walk and talk the talk of the Jews. This is not deceit, it is his willingness to be humble, cast off his pride, and become like his former brethren to win them. (Acts 16:3; 18:18; 21:20-26) This would be no different than a modern day missionary learning and conforming to the culture, within the boundaries of God's Word and his conscience, in which he was evangelizing.
===============================================

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Those outside the Mosaic Law were the Gentiles. As Paul makes clear here, it is not outside the Law of God but under the Law of Christ, i.e.; the royal law of liberty of which James speaks. It is clear that Paul's ministry bore this out, because he became the Apostle primarily to the Gentiles, just as Peter became primarily the Apostle to the Jews. (Gal. 2:7)

===============================================

To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak.

This is most likely speaking of Paul's willingness to preach the basic simple Gospel to those with weak and immature understanding, i.e.; milk of the Word versus the meat of the Word. ( 1 Cor. 3:2) Paul also speaks of choosing not to eat unclean foods, meat sacrificed to idols, and drink wine while he was in the presence of a weaker brother who still considered it a sin, so as not to offend him or cause him to stumble. (1 Cor. 8:13, Rom. 14:21) Deceit? No. Kindness? Yes.

===============================================

I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

This summarizes the entire passage. I think John MacArthur articulates it best when he says:

Within the bounds of God's word, he would not offend the Jew, Gentile or those weak in understanding. Not changing scripture or compromising the truth, he would condescend in ways that would lead to salvation.

It is best not to immediately default to the ridiculous and defamatory when attempting to understand the New Testament. If one takes this approach with the entire Bible, it could, I don't know, perhaps be a catalyst that could have the effect of turning one into a non-theist.

[Goat]

Paul claims to have been a Jew and a Jewish scholar. There are many who, for very good reason, dispute his claim.

St. Paul was a Jew (Ethnic and Religious), and a radical Pharisee, who went around killing Christians. He was a chief student, a top student, an expert of the Law, one of the greatest students of the greatest Rabbi at that time, Gamaliel. He was a Jew and a Jewish Scholar.

Saul of Tarsus aka Paul, makes the claim that he was a Pharisee (the strictest sect of the Jews), a persecutor of Christians, a student of Gamaliel, a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, a scholar and an expert in Law. He also claimed to have spoken with the resurrected Jesus, made a trip into heaven and to have channeled the very words of God.
Since his writings are considered Christian Scriptures, then in this sub-forum (Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma), that will be considered evidence in spite of the evidence and scholarship to the contrary.

In this subforum, the Bible is considered an authoritative source. Challenges to the authority of the Bible are not allowed here.

Yet, we can quote the bible to show where Paul says he used deceit.. including the deceit of being Jewish.


1 Cor 9:19-22

9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (9:20-22) "I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
Paul syas he'll do whatever it takes to get people to believe in order to save them from a God who will torture them for their honest disbelief.
9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

I understand why an atheist would be predisposed to choose, of the two ways of interpreting this passage, the most defamatory and least likely rendering. However, allow me to explain the obvious interpretation, which also happens to be the ingenuous one.

The passage in question is:

19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

I'll take each verse and offer what I consider to be the obvious interpretation as exemplified by the context and the rest of the New Testament.

===============================================

For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.

Paul is saying here that although he has the right to draw a wage from preaching the gospel, he is waiving that right so as not to put an obstacle is the way of the Gospel of Christ. This explanation is clearly supported by reading the verses that immediately precede the passage in question.

Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord? 2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

3 This is my defense to those who would examine me. 4 Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, [1] as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?

8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.� Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10 Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?

Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

15 But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing these things to secure any such provision. For I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of my ground for boasting. 16 For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward, but if not of my own will, I am still entrusted with a stewardship. 18 What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

===============================================

To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.

Paul would become as culturally and socially Jewish as need be in order to win the Jews. He knew the culture intimately. Since this sub-forum presupposes the validity of the Bible, then we know that he was, in fact, a Jew. This is not in dispute. So he can't mean, "I am not a Jew, but I'll pretend to be one to win them." This is not an option. So obviously he was able to walk the walk and talk the talk of the Jews. This is not deceit, it is his willingness to be humble, cast off his pride, and become like his former brethren to win them. (Acts 16:3; 18:18; 21:20-26) This would be no different than a modern day missionary learning and conforming to the culture, within the boundaries of God's Word and his conscience, in which he was evangelizing.
===============================================

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Those outside the Mosaic Law were the Gentiles. As Paul makes clear here, it is not outside the Law of God but under the Law of Christ, i.e.; the royal law of liberty of which James speaks. It is clear that Paul's ministry bore this out, because he became the Apostle primarily to the Gentiles, just as Peter became primarily the Apostle to the Jews. (Gal. 2:7)

===============================================

To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak.

This is most likely speaking of Paul's willingness to preach the basic simple Gospel to those with weak and immature understanding, i.e.; milk of the Word versus the meat of the Word. ( 1 Cor. 3:2) Paul also speaks of choosing not to eat unclean foods, meat sacrificed to idols, and drink wine while he was in the presence of a weaker brother who still considered it a sin, so as not to offend him or cause him to stumble. (1 Cor. 8:13, Rom. 14:21) Deceit? No. Kindness? Yes.

===============================================

I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

This summarizes the entire passage. I think John MacArthur articulates it best when he says:

Within the bounds of God's word, he would not offend the Jew, Gentile or those weak in understanding. Not changing scripture or compromising the truth, he would condescend in ways that would lead to salvation.

It is best not to immediately default to the ridiculous and defamatory when attempting to understand the New Testament. If one takes this approach with the entire Bible, it could, I don't know, perhaps be a catalyst that could have the effect of turning one into a non-theist.

I have to say that this is why I am very contemptuous of hermeneutics. They go and make a large huge effort to make it passages say what it doesn't say. They find elaborate excuses and complicated explanations to make something mean other than the most simplest explanation. I noticed that they parsed out the passages, and interpreted even passage fragments in isolation from each other. ... and I also see that there is a translation change. Don't you love when they change the translation of a passage just to soften it's meaning.?

Yes, and become 'all things to all people'.. that does indeed summarize the passage. He became a chameleon to mimic other people.. and pretend to be what he is not.

[JehovahsWitness]

True Christians (that hold to the beliefs and teaching of Jesus and the first century congregation) worship exactly the same God as the Jews. YHWH (Yaweh or in English "Jehovah").

Questions for debate:

1. Did Jews and Jesus worship exactly the same God?
2. Did Jews and the first century Christians worship exactly the same God?
3. Did the first century congregation worship exactly the same God as most modern Christians?
4. Do Jews and most modern Christians worship exactly the same God?
5. [bonus question] Is the god of Islam the same God or a different one?

1. Did Jews and Jesus worship exactly the same God?
The Jews as a nation were dedicated to Jehovah (Yahweh YHWH) by being born into that nation, Jesus was automatically part of that system of worship. Jesus as a Jew respected the Jewish law. He worshipped at the Jewish temple and any false claims that he had Blasphemed against the Jewish God were scripturally competely unfounded.

Jesus pointed out however that by THEIR deviating from Scripture, introducing "man made" teachings, sinning against the spirit of the law and ultimately rejecting their own Messiah, their worship became a corruption of their Claims to be of true Abrahamic faith (see John 8:44).

2. Did Jews and the first century Christians worship exactly the same God? Yes, the majority of first century Christians were also Jewish, and as such worshipped the God of their ancestors. Towards the end of that century, God rejected the Jewish system of worship in favor of one based on the teachings and sacifice of the Jewish Messiah, Jesus. This development of course was perceieved by those still loyal to the Mosaic Temple bound system as apostacy but in reality it was a reflection of the Divine plan to have all nations of the earth bless themselves through a "new covenant" arrangement. (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Genesis 22:18)

3. Did the first century congregation worship exactly the same God as most modern Christians? No. Jesus indicated that very close to the time he would finish his earthly ministry his work would be corrupted from within - NOT in the sense that what he had taught and established would be "los"t but that true Christianity would effectively no longer be identifiable due to internal diviation from Divine teaching. (see Matthew 13: 24-30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). So effectively the end of the first century saw the end of pure worship and the beginning of an apostate Christianity. Individuals may well have been able to gains God's personal approval but the "god" of *christian* churches that saw their birth and organisation from the 2nd century on, was not the God of Jesus or the First century worshippers. For example this new *God* quickly developed a truine nature, created immortal souls for humans and a place of eternal torment for the wicked.

4. Do Jews and most modern Christians worship exactly the same God? ? No. (See above)

5. Is the god of Islam the same God or a different one? Islam, an amulgamation of apostate Christianity and apostate Judaism (see above) and tribal and native law, traditions and philosophies and writings, solidfied by Mohammed, is just one of the many religions that humans have developed over the milleniums.

CONCLUSION

In summary, the Creator of the Universe has always been the Creator of the universe. Whether *he* has been the one people have chosen to worship has been dependent on their access to accurate information and their personal desire to adhere to it. God's chosen people the Jews always had the former but lapsed regularly in regard to the latter. In those moments, though they claimed to continue to worship the God of their forefather Abraham, the prophets again and again attempted to help them understand that being born within a system did not guarantee that their worship was directed to the True God. Still, of all the nations on the planet at the time though, they were the keepers of the Word and The Creators special property and he stayed loyal to them although that loyalty was not always returned. The nations around were busy worshipping the gods of their imagination, volcanoes, stones and more often than not other people and Judaism and Apostate Christianity eventually joined them.

True to His intention and word however God eventually turned his attention to the situation and in our times and chose again a people for his name. (see Act 15:14) A people that would not just SAY they were worshipping him, or believe this was true due to their national heritage but would in reality be worshipping Him (John 4:24).

I would also recommend Pauls excellent discourse at the Areopagus on this subject found at - Acts 17: 22-31

APOSTACY

The Greek noun a·po·sta·siʹa, used here, comes from the verb a·phiʹste·mi, which literally means “to stand away from” and can be rendered, depending on the context, “to withdraw; to renounce.” (Ac 19:9; 2Ti 2:19) The noun has the sense of “desertion; abandonment; rebellion.” It appears twice in the Christian Greek Scriptures, here and at 2Th 2:3. In classical Greek, the noun was used to refer to political defection, and the verb is apparently employed in this sense at Ac 5:37 concerning Judas the Galilean, who “drew [a form of a·phiʹste·mi] followers after himself.” The Septuagint uses the verb at Ge 14:4 with reference to such a political rebellion, and the noun a·po·sta·siʹa is used at Jos 22:22; 2Ch 29:19; and Jer 2:19 to translate Hebrew expressions for “rebellion” and “unfaithfulness.” In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the noun a·po·sta·siʹa is used primarily with regard to religious defection, a withdrawal from or abandonment of the true worship and service of God, an abandonment of what one has previously professed, a total desertion of principles or faith.

[Joshua Patrick]

Yet, we can quote the bible to show where Paul says he used deceit.. including the deceit of being Jewish.


1 Cor 9:19-22

9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (9:20-22) "I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
Paul syas he'll do whatever it takes to get people to believe in order to save them from a God who will torture them for their honest disbelief.
9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Can you specifically pin point the part where he says he's a deciever?
He lied, or is that an assumption on your part?

You ever thought that 1 Cor 9:19-22 means something else.

Like he is serving and TRYING to relate to others to spread the Gospel not decieve them.

Lets add in v23 "I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

[Goat]

Yet, we can quote the bible to show where Paul says he used deceit.. including the deceit of being Jewish.


1 Cor 9:19-22

9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; (9:20-22) "I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
Paul syas he'll do whatever it takes to get people to believe in order to save them from a God who will torture them for their honest disbelief.
9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Can you specifically pin point the part where he says he's a deciever?
He lied, or is that an assumption on your part?

You ever thought that 1 Cor 9:19-22 means something else.

Like he is serving and TRYING to relate to others to spread the Gospel not decieve them.

Lets add in v23 "I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

If he 'became as a Jew to gain the Jews', he never was Jewish.

That is deception.