70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

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Shermana
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70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

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Post by Shermana »



An excellent collection though a few show a few signs of liberties. There's a lot more "A god" translations than I realized.

Is it logical to conclude that there is much more than the JWs as an authority that this reading of John 1:1 can be legitimately read as "a god"?

Are there enough translations that present the case of "a god" or "Divine" as the translation of an article-less "Theos" to conclude that it's not just some fringe baseless position? Is it more of a Theological issue why the "A god" translation is so unappreciated by the "Conservative scholars"?

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #91

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to tigger 2 in post #91]

Wouldn't it be beautiful if folks would take it upon themselves to really delve into it and see for themselves what the facts are?

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #92

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Any further thoughts on this thread? Surely it is worthy of consideration.

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #93

Post by tigger 2 »

Anyone?

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #94

Post by DB »

[Replying to Shermana in post #1]

I understand that there are many Greek scholars, namely Daniel Wallace, who agree that the final clause should be translated '...and the word was god-like..' or sublime. And, not that the word was a deified entity.
Anthony Buzzard put it well:
if Jesus is the word in clause one, then how does this read; '...in the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God...' - nonsense!
Or, if God is the word in clause one, then how does this read; '...in the beginning was God, and God was with God, and God was God...' - nonsense!

Unfortunately, the link that you posted with all the 70 translations is no longer available. Thus, I may be saying things already stated in those interpretations.

John's emphasis is that Jesus was not an after-thought, he was always destined to be the Son-of-man, even though history's chronology may appear otherwise.
God's word was not the Garden of Eden, or any subsequent plans or dispensations that were established prior to Christ - Christ was the intended word of God, but revealed at the appointed time.
The mystery of Christ is not in his ontology, but his chronology!

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #95

Post by Betho_BR »

1a- The phrase Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος - John 1:1a is explained in 1 John 1:1-3:

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ." (ESV)

What is the Logos?

The beginning of the Logos is Truth. Psalms 118 (119 HEB).60,
The Logos is True. 2 Timothy 2:15,
The True Logos is the Gospel. Ephesians 1:13,
The Logos became flesh. John 1:14,
God's Logos is the Truth. John 17:17,
The True Logos is the means of generation. James 1:18,
God's Logos is within the generated. 1 John 2:14,
God's Logos is the Seed of God. Luke 8:11.

1b- The phrase "...ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν..." in John 1:1b is not a typical syntactic construction in the Koine Greek language, but it occurs in 1 Corinthians 12:2: "... ἔθνη ἦτε πρὸς τὰ εἴδωλα..." where it reads: "Gentiles, you were toward the idols...," indicating an attempt at spiritual communion. Another similar construction is found in 1 John 1:2, "...ἥτις ἦν πρὸς τὸν πατέρα..." where it reads, "...which (Eternal Life) was toward the Father...," and the relationship between Eternal Life and the Father is relevant to the argument, as extensively described in the New Testament, especially in the Johannine writings, characterizing and defining the usual meaning of the preposition "πρὸς." The definite article "τὸν," the object of the preposition "πρὸς," defines, references, and limits the assertion of the object "θεόν" to יהוה.

1c- The phrase "...θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος..." in John 1:1c is a predicative nominative construction (both main nouns in the sentence are in the nominative case and are accompanied by the standard copulative verb, which is in the Imperfect Indicative). This syntactic construction occurs in Genesis 9:18; 24:16, 29; 28:19; Judges 11:18; 2 Samuel 9:2; 20:26; 1 Kings 2:46; 1 Esther 2:9, 17; Job 29:15; 32:1; Jonah 3:3; Zechariah 6:1; Malachi 1:2; Isaiah 37:19; Ezekiel 23:2; Matthew 3:4; 21:33; Mark 7:26; John 1:1, 4; Acts 27:8, where the part of the clause that is the object of the verb lacks the article, excluding the Johannine verse.

Is θεὸς characterized in John 1:1c as a Name (Who He is), Nature (What He is), or Office (By whom He is)?

Daniel B. Wallace in "A Grammar of Greek: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament," explains that the use of "θεὸς" anarthrous, i.e., without an article in John 1:1c (as, for example, in John 4:19; 6:70; 8:44; 9:17; 10:1,13,33, and 12:6), may POSSIBLY be used as a qualitative noun (referring to the quality about someone), and I agree with him in this aspect. However, I conceptualize using different terminology from his:

The idea of a qualitative "θεóς" here is, according to my understanding, the idea that the Logos had all the attributes and quality that the term "God" has in John 1:1b. That is, he shared the substance of יהוה, although he, the Logos, became a hypostasis (person), reinforced by the vocative.

a) The context of John 1:1-2 emphatically informs, using duplication, that the Logos was with God, that is, the Logos was not "...τὸν θεόν...." from construction 1.b with whom he was in the beginning; therefore, the author of the Gospel of John does not use "θεὸς" from construction 1.c in the same way he used "...τὸν θεόν...." from construction 1.b.

b) Jesus teaches that the Law named gods, in Greek "θεοί" (plural of "θεός"), to whom the Logos was directed (Psalm 81:6 Septuagint 82:6 HEB, John 10:34-35), and that these "gods" would die and fall like any mortal; therefore, "θεοί" does not always mean the Hypostasis of יהוה.

c) Other created beings were by office (mission) "θεός" or equivalent אלהים, as in Exodus 7:1 (Septuagint), Exodus 21:6, 22:8-9, Psalm 81:6 (82-6 HEB), and Zechariah 12:8 HEB.

d) The pattern of syntactic construction is "...Nominative Noun ἦν Nominative Noun..." and occurs in Genesis 9:18; 24:16,29;28:19; Judges 11:18; 2 Samuel 9:2;20:26; 1 Kings 2:46; 1 Esther 2:9, 17; Job 32:1; Jonah 3:3; Zechariah 6:1; Malachi 1:2; Matthew 3:4; 21:33, Mark 7:26; and Acts 27:8. The construction with an article after the verb "...Nominative Noun ἦν ὁ Nominative Noun..." only occurs in John 1:1 and 1:4. What does this mean? The article in Greek serves to conceptualize, transform into an entity, in terms of function, it identifies the identity of a being, class, or quality. A good example is in Luke 12:58, where "the Judge" refers to a human person, regarding divine judgment. Thus, the addition of the article in John 1:1c, deviating from syntactic familiarity, is to leave no doubt that the Logos is the subject of the sentence, with all the emphasis instead of "θεὸς."

e) An analysis of Zechariah 6:1:

καὶ ἐπέστρεψα καὶ ἦρα τοὺς ὀφθαλμούς μου καὶ εἶδον καὶ ἰδοὺ τέσσαρα ἅρματα ἐκπορευόμενα ἐκ μέσου δύο ὀρέων καὶ τὰ ὄρη ἦν ὄρη χαλκᾶ Zacarias 6:1 - Septuaginta (Greek Edition): Alfred Rahlfs, Robert Hanhart.

וָאָשֻׁ֗ב וָאֶשָּׂ֤א עֵינַי֙ וָֽאֶרְאֶ֔ה וְהִנֵּ֙ה אַרְבַּ֤ע מַרְכָּבוֹת֙ יֹֽצְא֔וֹת מִבֵּ֖ין שְׁנֵ֣י הֶֽהָרִ֑ים וְהֶהָרִ֖ים הָרֵ֥י נְחֹֽשֶׁת׃
Zacarias 6:1 - Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (Hebrew Bible, Masoretic Text or Hebrew Old Testament), edited by K. Elliger and W. Rudolph of the Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, Stuttgart, Fourth Corrected Edition.

And I turned and lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, four chariots coming out from between two mountains, and the mountains were bronze mountains. Jünemann Bible - Zechariah 6:1.

It is notorious that in the construction "...δύο ὀρέων καὶ τὰ ὄρη ἦν ὄρη χαλκᾶ" the noun "ὄρη" is anarthrous, i.e., without an article, like "θεὸς" in John 1:1c, characterizing, supported by an adjective, the subject "τὰ ὄρη." Following this argument, "θεὸς" qualifies "ὁ λόγος" (the Logos).

The Hebrew syntactic construction, especially in addition to Zechariah 6:1, occurs in Genesis 27:22, where a better translation would be "...but the hands are the hands of Esau," Genesis 31:43 "these daughters are my daughters," Exodus 32:16 "the writing is the same writing," 1 Samuel 1:24 "the boy was very young," 2 Chronicles 3:6 "gold, of gold from Parvaim," and Ezekiel 41:6 "the sides (chambers) of the side."

f) An analysis of Exodus 20:21:

"ἱστήκει δὲ ὁ λαὸς μακρόθεν, Μωυσῆς δὲ εἰσῆλθεν εἰς τὸν γνόφον οὗ ἦν ὁ θεός" (Exodus 20:21, Septuaginta).

"And the people stood far off, but Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was" (Exodus 20:21, Masoretic Text).

The people were standing far off, while Moses approached the dark cloud where God was. (Exodus 20:21)

The interlinear for the construction "...εἰς τὸν γνόφον οὗ ἦν ὁ θεός..." is "εἰς τὸν γνόφον" (into the thick cloud) οὗ (where) ἦν ὁ θεός (God was). Regarding the presence of God in the thick cloud:

"Then Solomon said: 'The LORD has said that he would dwell in thick darkness'" (1 Kings 8:12 ).

While saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, 'This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen to him!'" (Luke 9:34,35).

The verb ἦν in the context of Exodus 20:21 is explained by 1 Kings 8:12, acquiring an advance in linguistic meaning from "being" to "dwelling," which is again in line with New Testament Theology regarding the Logos and with Patristic Theology concerning recent Christianity:

"That is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their sins against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation" (2 Corinthians 5:19).

Thus, the translation of John 1:1-3 reads:

"The Logos dwelled in the beginning, and the Logos dwelled with God, and God dwelled in the Logos. He dwelled in the beginning with God. All the reborn were made by him, and without him, nothing that was made came into being."

References: John 1:12,13; 3:3,6,7, 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1,2,3,4,18; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3.

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #96

Post by onewithhim »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:32 am
Shermana wrote: Are there enough translations that present the case of "a god" or "Divine" as the translation of an article-less "Theos" to conclude that it's not just some fringe baseless position?

"enough" is a subjective quantifier but there are a a number of respected scholars that make a case for this understanding of John 1:1











BIBLE SCHOLARS:

"the Word [logos] was a god". -Origen's Commentary on John, Book I, ch. 42 - Bk II, ch.3.

"The Logos was divine, not the divine Being himself." -- Joseph Henry Thayer, a theologian & scholar (the American Standard Version)

"Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated . . . 'the word was a divine being.'" -- And Jesuit John L. McKenzie, Dictionary of the Bible





**Interlineary Word for Word English Translation-Emphatic Diaglott, "In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word."

**Edward Harwood, H KAINH DIAQHKH. London, 1776, 2 vols; 2nd ed. 1784, 2 vols. 1768,"and was himself a divine person"

**Newcome, 1808, "and the word was a god"

**Crellius,as quoted in The New Testament in an Improved Version "the Word was God's"

**La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel,1928: “and the Word was a divine being.�

**John Samuel Thompson, The Montessoran; or The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists, Baltimore; published by the translator, 1829, "the Logos was a god"

**Goodspeed's An American Translation, 1939, "the Word was divine"

**Revised Version-Improved and Corrected, "the word was a god."

Prof. Felix Just, S.J. - Loyola Marymount University, "and god[-ly/-like] was the Word."

**Moffatt's The Bible, 1972, "the Logos was divine"

**International English Bible-Extreme New Testament, 2001, "the Word was God*[ftn. or Deity, Divine, which is a better translation, because the Greek definite article is not present before this Greek word]

**Reijnier Rooleeuw, M.D. -The New Testament of Our Lord Jesus Christ, translated from the Greek, 1694, "and the Word was a god"

**Hermann Heinfetter, A Literal Translation of the New Testament,1863, [A]s a god the Command was"

Abner Kneeland-The New Testament in Greek and English, 1822, "The Word was a God"

Robert Young, LL.D. (Concise Commentary on the Holy Bible [Grand Rapids: Baker, n.d.], 54). 1885,
"[A]nd a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word"

Belsham N.T. 1809 “the Word was a god�

Leicester Ambrose, The Final Theology, Volume 1, New York, New York; M.B. Sawyer and Company, 1879, "And the logos was a god"

Charles A.L. Totten, The Gospel of History, 1900, "the Word was Deistic [=The Word was Godly]

**J.N. Jannaris, Zeitschrift fur die Newtestameutlich Wissencraft, (German periodical) 1901, [A]nd was a god"
International Bible Translators N.T. 1981

Samuel Clarke, M.A., D.D., rector of St. James, Westminster, A Paraphrase on the Gospel of John, London
"[A] Divine Person."

Joseph Priestley, LL.D., F.R.S. [Philadelphia: Thomas Dobson, 1794], 37). "a God"

Lant Carpenter, LL.D (in Unitarianism in the Gospels [London: C. Stower, 1809], 156). "a God"

Andrews Norton, D.D. [Cambridge: Brown, Shattuck, and Company, 1833], 74). "a god"

Paul Wernle,(in The Beginnings of Christianity, vol. 1, The Rise of Religion [1903], 16). "a God"

"and the [Marshal] [Word] was a god." 21st Century Literal

**George William Horner, The Coptic Version of the New Testament, 1911, [A]nd (a) God was the word"

Ernest Findlay Scott, The Literature of the New Testament, New York, Columbia University Press, 1932, "[A]nd the Word was of divine nature"

James L. Tomanec, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958, [T]he Word was a God"

Philip Harner, JBL, Vol. 92, 1974, "The Word had the same nature as God"

Siegfried Schulz, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1975, "And a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word"

Johannes Schneider, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1978, "and godlike sort was the Logos"

**Scholar's Version-The Five Gospels, 1993, "The Divine word and wisdom was there with God, and it was what God was"

**J. Madsen, New Testament A Rendering , 1994, "the Word was a divine Being"

**Jurgen Becker, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1979, "a God/god was the Logos/logos"

**Curt Stage, The New Testament, 1907, "The Word/word was itself a divine Being/being."

Lyder Brun (Norw. professor of NT theology), 1945, "the Word was of divine kind"

**Fredrich Pfaefflin, The New Testament, 1949, "was of divine Kind/kind"

Albrecht, 1957, "godlike Being/being had the Word/word"

Smit, 1960, "the word of the world was a divine being"

Menge, 1961, "God(=godlike Being/being) was the Word/word"

Haenchen (tr. By R. Funk), 1984, "divine (of the category divinity)was the Logos"

William Temple, Archbishop of York, Readings in St. John's Gospel, London, Macmillan & Co.,1933,
"And the Word was divine."

John Crellius, Latin form of German, The 2 Books of John Crellius Fancus, Touching One God the Father, 1631, "The Word of Speech was a God"

Greek Orthodox /Arabic Calendar, incorporating portions of the 4 Gospels, Greek Orthodox Patriarchy or Beirut, May, 1983, "the word was with Allah[God] and the word was a god"

Ervin Edward Stringfellow (Prof. of NT Language and Literature/Drake University, 1943, "And the Word was Divine"

Robert Harvey, D.D., Professor of New Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge, in The Historic Jesus in the New Testament, London, Student Movement Christian Press1931
"and the Logos was divine (a divine being)"

Jesuit John L. McKenzie, 1965, wrote in his Dictionary of the Bible: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated . . . 'the word was a divine being.'

All translations
http://web.archive.org/web/200312042125 ... wisdom.htm
:approve:

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #97

Post by otseng »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #96]


9. No unconstructive one-liners posts are allowed in debates.

Kindly refrain from making posts that contribute nothing to debate and/or simply express agreement / disagreement or make other frivolous remarks.

For complimenting or agreeing use the Thank button. For anything else use PM.

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #98

Post by onewithhim »

otseng wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:49 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #96]


9. No unconstructive one-liners posts are allowed in debates.

Kindly refrain from making posts that contribute nothing to debate and/or simply express agreement / disagreement or make other frivolous remarks.

For complimenting or agreeing use the Thank button. For anything else use PM.
I apologize. Thank you for the reminder.

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #99

Post by onewithhim »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:12 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:32 am
Shermana wrote: Are there enough translations that present the case of "a god" or "Divine" as the translation of an article-less "Theos" to conclude that it's not just some fringe baseless position?

"enough" is a subjective quantifier but there are a a number of respected scholars that make a case for this understanding of John 1:1
Post #96 is very informative. There are many examples of scholars who translate John 1:1 with "a god." I hope folks will be able to see the list. To others who look on---what is your reaction to this extensive list?









BIBLE SCHOLARS:

"the Word [logos] was a god". -Origen's Commentary on John, Book I, ch. 42 - Bk II, ch.3.

"The Logos was divine, not the divine Being himself." -- Joseph Henry Thayer, a theologian & scholar (the American Standard Version)

"Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated . . . 'the word was a divine being.'" -- And Jesuit John L. McKenzie, Dictionary of the Bible





**Interlineary Word for Word English Translation-Emphatic Diaglott, "In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word."

**Edward Harwood, H KAINH DIAQHKH. London, 1776, 2 vols; 2nd ed. 1784, 2 vols. 1768,"and was himself a divine person"

**Newcome, 1808, "and the word was a god"

**Crellius,as quoted in The New Testament in an Improved Version "the Word was God's"

**La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel,1928: “and the Word was a divine being.�

**John Samuel Thompson, The Montessoran; or The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists, Baltimore; published by the translator, 1829, "the Logos was a god"

**Goodspeed's An American Translation, 1939, "the Word was divine"

**Revised Version-Improved and Corrected, "the word was a god."

Prof. Felix Just, S.J. - Loyola Marymount University, "and god[-ly/-like] was the Word."

**Moffatt's The Bible, 1972, "the Logos was divine"

**International English Bible-Extreme New Testament, 2001, "the Word was God*[ftn. or Deity, Divine, which is a better translation, because the Greek definite article is not present before this Greek word]

**Reijnier Rooleeuw, M.D. -The New Testament of Our Lord Jesus Christ, translated from the Greek, 1694, "and the Word was a god"

**Hermann Heinfetter, A Literal Translation of the New Testament,1863, [A]s a god the Command was"

Abner Kneeland-The New Testament in Greek and English, 1822, "The Word was a God"

Robert Young, LL.D. (Concise Commentary on the Holy Bible [Grand Rapids: Baker, n.d.], 54). 1885,
"[A]nd a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word"

Belsham N.T. 1809 “the Word was a god�

Leicester Ambrose, The Final Theology, Volume 1, New York, New York; M.B. Sawyer and Company, 1879, "And the logos was a god"

Charles A.L. Totten, The Gospel of History, 1900, "the Word was Deistic [=The Word was Godly]

**J.N. Jannaris, Zeitschrift fur die Newtestameutlich Wissencraft, (German periodical) 1901, [A]nd was a god"
International Bible Translators N.T. 1981

Samuel Clarke, M.A., D.D., rector of St. James, Westminster, A Paraphrase on the Gospel of John, London
"[A] Divine Person."

Joseph Priestley, LL.D., F.R.S. [Philadelphia: Thomas Dobson, 1794], 37). "a God"

Lant Carpenter, LL.D (in Unitarianism in the Gospels [London: C. Stower, 1809], 156). "a God"

Andrews Norton, D.D. [Cambridge: Brown, Shattuck, and Company, 1833], 74). "a god"

Paul Wernle,(in The Beginnings of Christianity, vol. 1, The Rise of Religion [1903], 16). "a God"

"and the [Marshal] [Word] was a god." 21st Century Literal

**George William Horner, The Coptic Version of the New Testament, 1911, [A]nd (a) God was the word"

Ernest Findlay Scott, The Literature of the New Testament, New York, Columbia University Press, 1932, "[A]nd the Word was of divine nature"

James L. Tomanec, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958, [T]he Word was a God"

Philip Harner, JBL, Vol. 92, 1974, "The Word had the same nature as God"

Siegfried Schulz, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1975, "And a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word"

Johannes Schneider, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1978, "and godlike sort was the Logos"

**Scholar's Version-The Five Gospels, 1993, "The Divine word and wisdom was there with God, and it was what God was"

**J. Madsen, New Testament A Rendering , 1994, "the Word was a divine Being"

**Jurgen Becker, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1979, "a God/god was the Logos/logos"

**Curt Stage, The New Testament, 1907, "The Word/word was itself a divine Being/being."

Lyder Brun (Norw. professor of NT theology), 1945, "the Word was of divine kind"

**Fredrich Pfaefflin, The New Testament, 1949, "was of divine Kind/kind"

Albrecht, 1957, "godlike Being/being had the Word/word"

Smit, 1960, "the word of the world was a divine being"

Menge, 1961, "God(=godlike Being/being) was the Word/word"

Haenchen (tr. By R. Funk), 1984, "divine (of the category divinity)was the Logos"

William Temple, Archbishop of York, Readings in St. John's Gospel, London, Macmillan & Co.,1933,
"And the Word was divine."

John Crellius, Latin form of German, The 2 Books of John Crellius Fancus, Touching One God the Father, 1631, "The Word of Speech was a God"

Greek Orthodox /Arabic Calendar, incorporating portions of the 4 Gospels, Greek Orthodox Patriarchy or Beirut, May, 1983, "the word was with Allah[God] and the word was a god"

Ervin Edward Stringfellow (Prof. of NT Language and Literature/Drake University, 1943, "And the Word was Divine"

Robert Harvey, D.D., Professor of New Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge, in The Historic Jesus in the New Testament, London, Student Movement Christian Press1931
"and the Logos was divine (a divine being)"

Jesuit John L. McKenzie, 1965, wrote in his Dictionary of the Bible: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated . . . 'the word was a divine being.'

All translations
http://web.archive.org/web/200312042125 ... wisdom.htm
:approve:
[/quote]

Post #96 is very informative. What do folks who are looking on think of this list?

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Re: 70 Non Trinitarian translations of John 1:1

Post #100

Post by onewithhim »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:47 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:12 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:32 am
Shermana wrote: Are there enough translations that present the case of "a god" or "Divine" as the translation of an article-less "Theos" to conclude that it's not just some fringe baseless position?

"enough" is a subjective quantifier but there are a a number of respected scholars that make a case for this understanding of John 1:1
Post #96 is very informative. There are many examples of scholars who translate John 1:1 with "a god." I hope folks will be able to see the list. To others who look on---what is your reaction to this extensive list?

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BIBLE SCHOLARS:

"the Word [logos] was a god". -Origen's Commentary on John, Book I, ch. 42 - Bk II, ch.3.

"The Logos was divine, not the divine Being himself." -- Joseph Henry Thayer, a theologian & scholar (the American Standard Version)

"Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated . . . 'the word was a divine being.'" -- And Jesuit John L. McKenzie, Dictionary of the Bible





**Interlineary Word for Word English Translation-Emphatic Diaglott, "In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word."

**Edward Harwood, H KAINH DIAQHKH. London, 1776, 2 vols; 2nd ed. 1784, 2 vols. 1768,"and was himself a divine person"

**Newcome, 1808, "and the word was a god"

**Crellius,as quoted in The New Testament in an Improved Version "the Word was God's"

**La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel,1928: “and the Word was a divine being.�

**John Samuel Thompson, The Montessoran; or The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists, Baltimore; published by the translator, 1829, "the Logos was a god"

**Goodspeed's An American Translation, 1939, "the Word was divine"

**Revised Version-Improved and Corrected, "the word was a god."

Prof. Felix Just, S.J. - Loyola Marymount University, "and god[-ly/-like] was the Word."

**Moffatt's The Bible, 1972, "the Logos was divine"

**International English Bible-Extreme New Testament, 2001, "the Word was God*[ftn. or Deity, Divine, which is a better translation, because the Greek definite article is not present before this Greek word]

**Reijnier Rooleeuw, M.D. -The New Testament of Our Lord Jesus Christ, translated from the Greek, 1694, "and the Word was a god"

**Hermann Heinfetter, A Literal Translation of the New Testament,1863, [A]s a god the Command was"

Abner Kneeland-The New Testament in Greek and English, 1822, "The Word was a God"

Robert Young, LL.D. (Concise Commentary on the Holy Bible [Grand Rapids: Baker, n.d.], 54). 1885,
"[A]nd a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word"

Belsham N.T. 1809 “the Word was a god�

Leicester Ambrose, The Final Theology, Volume 1, New York, New York; M.B. Sawyer and Company, 1879, "And the logos was a god"

Charles A.L. Totten, The Gospel of History, 1900, "the Word was Deistic [=The Word was Godly]

**J.N. Jannaris, Zeitschrift fur die Newtestameutlich Wissencraft, (German periodical) 1901, [A]nd was a god"
International Bible Translators N.T. 1981

Samuel Clarke, M.A., D.D., rector of St. James, Westminster, A Paraphrase on the Gospel of John, London
"[A] Divine Person."

Joseph Priestley, LL.D., F.R.S. [Philadelphia: Thomas Dobson, 1794], 37). "a God"

Lant Carpenter, LL.D (in Unitarianism in the Gospels [London: C. Stower, 1809], 156). "a God"

Andrews Norton, D.D. [Cambridge: Brown, Shattuck, and Company, 1833], 74). "a god"

Paul Wernle,(in The Beginnings of Christianity, vol. 1, The Rise of Religion [1903], 16). "a God"

"and the [Marshal] [Word] was a god." 21st Century Literal

**George William Horner, The Coptic Version of the New Testament, 1911, [A]nd (a) God was the word"

Ernest Findlay Scott, The Literature of the New Testament, New York, Columbia University Press, 1932, "[A]nd the Word was of divine nature"

James L. Tomanec, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958, [T]he Word was a God"

Philip Harner, JBL, Vol. 92, 1974, "The Word had the same nature as God"

Siegfried Schulz, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1975, "And a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word"

Johannes Schneider, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1978, "and godlike sort was the Logos"

**Scholar's Version-The Five Gospels, 1993, "The Divine word and wisdom was there with God, and it was what God was"

**J. Madsen, New Testament A Rendering , 1994, "the Word was a divine Being"

**Jurgen Becker, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1979, "a God/god was the Logos/logos"

**Curt Stage, The New Testament, 1907, "The Word/word was itself a divine Being/being."

Lyder Brun (Norw. professor of NT theology), 1945, "the Word was of divine kind"

**Fredrich Pfaefflin, The New Testament, 1949, "was of divine Kind/kind"

Albrecht, 1957, "godlike Being/being had the Word/word"

Smit, 1960, "the word of the world was a divine being"

Menge, 1961, "God(=godlike Being/being) was the Word/word"

Haenchen (tr. By R. Funk), 1984, "divine (of the category divinity)was the Logos"

William Temple, Archbishop of York, Readings in St. John's Gospel, London, Macmillan & Co.,1933,
"And the Word was divine."

John Crellius, Latin form of German, The 2 Books of John Crellius Fancus, Touching One God the Father, 1631, "The Word of Speech was a God"

Greek Orthodox /Arabic Calendar, incorporating portions of the 4 Gospels, Greek Orthodox Patriarchy or Beirut, May, 1983, "the word was with Allah[God] and the word was a god"

Ervin Edward Stringfellow (Prof. of NT Language and Literature/Drake University, 1943, "And the Word was Divine"

Robert Harvey, D.D., Professor of New Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge, in The Historic Jesus in the New Testament, London, Student Movement Christian Press1931
"and the Logos was divine (a divine being)"

Jesuit John L. McKenzie, 1965, wrote in his Dictionary of the Bible: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated . . . 'the word was a divine being.'

All translations
http://web.archive.org/web/200312042125 ... wisdom.htm
:approve:
Post #96 is very informative. What do folks who are looking on think of this list?
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