Disputed Ending of Mark 16.

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Disputed Ending of Mark 16.

Post #1

Post by rstrats »

A poster on another board, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn’t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture.


I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, it has generally been my experience that first day proponents many times use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change of observance from the seventh day to the first day, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, frequently quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.� - I have not yet been able to come up with one. Does anyone here know of one?

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Post #21

Post by rstrats »

Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of an author.

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Post #22

Post by Imprecise Interrupt »

I am unaware of anyone using Mark 16:9 to justify the first day of the week as the time of the visit. Nor do I see the need for that.

Mark 16:2 And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb

Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

Luke 24:1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared.

John 20:1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.

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Post #23

Post by rstrats »

Imprecise Interrupt,
re: "I am unaware of anyone using Mark 16:9 to justify the first day of the week as the time of the visit."

No problem because that wasn't my question. The question was with regard to identifying a published author who has used Mark 16:9 to support a 1st day of the week resurrection. It wasn't about the visiting of the women to the tomb.

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Post #24

Post by JehovahsWitness »

rstrats wrote: The question was with regard to identifying a published author who has used Mark 16:9 to support a 1st day of the week resurrection. It wasn't about the visiting of the women to the tomb.
I don't know that any "need" Mark 16:9 specifically, since all the other gospels imply Jesus's resurrection took place early on the first day of the week (thus the empty tomb later that morning as found by the women *). Other factors would be the references to the Sabbath in relation to his death and Jesus own prediction of being resurrected on the 3rd day.

The writers of the Watchtower society have published their conclusions in this regard The Watchtower 1973 issue December 15, page 768
Jesus died on Friday afternoon and was buried before the sabbath began. This being the case, the weekly sabbath coincided with the first day of the Festival of Unfermented Cakes, which was also a sabbath. It is logical, then, that this is why the Bible calls the day following Jesus’ death a “great� sabbath. (John 19:31, 42; Mark 15:42, 43; Luke 23:54) As soon as that sabbath was over (which would be at sundown, Nisan 15) Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Salome bought additional spices for greasing Jesus’ body. Their earliest opportunity to use the spices came at daybreak Sunday morning, Nisan 16. By that time Jesus had already been resurrected, after having been in the tomb for parts of three days.

SOURCE https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1973926#h=13





JW




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DEATH, HEAVEN and ... THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
*
Matthew 28:1 " ..on the first day of the week, Mary Magʹda·lene and the other Mary+ came to view the grave."

Luke 24: 1 "But on the first day of the week, they came very early to the tomb"

JOHN 20: 1 "On the first day of the week, Mary Magʹda·lene came to the tomb early..."
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
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Post #25

Post by rstrats »

JehovahsWitness,
re: "I don't know that any 'need' Mark 16:9 specifically, since all the other gospels imply Jesus's resurrection took place early on the first day of the week..."

Maybe they don't think that they 'need' it, but Mark 16:9 is the only scripture - as it is in the KJV - that actually says that the resurrection occurred on the 1st day of the week.


re: "...thus the empty tomb later that morning as found by the women..."

I see no implication there of a 1st day resurrection. Scripture merely says that the tomb was empty when they arrived. It neither says nor implies that it became empty the same day.


re: "Other factors would be the references to the Sabbath in relation to his death and Jesus own prediction of being resurrected on the 3rd day.

Not a slam dunk because you must certainly know that there are numerous published papers which argue that the mentioned Sabbath is not referring to the weekly Sabbath.

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Post #26

Post by Imprecise Interrupt »

rstrats wrote: Imprecise Interrupt,
re: "I am unaware of anyone using Mark 16:9 to justify the first day of the week as the time of the visit."

No problem because that wasn't my question. The question was with regard to identifying a published author who has used Mark 16:9 to support a 1st day of the week resurrection. It wasn't about the visiting of the women to the tomb.
After more than 7 years, nobody has provided any published author to support your claim. And since it is NOT the only place in the KJV that establishes the first day of the week, as you thought, why are you - ahem – resurrecting this thread? Again?

Last time I quoted ESV. Here is the KJV version of those same verses, since KJV is what you named.

Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

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Post #27

Post by rstrats »

Imprecise Interrupt,
re: "After more than 7 years, nobody has provided any published author to support your claim..., why are you - ahem – resurrecting this thread? Again?"

Because there be someone new visiting this topic who knows of an author.



re: "And since it is NOT the only place in the KJV that establishes the first day of the week, as you thought..."

I'm not aware of any other place.



re: "Last time I quoted ESV. Here is the KJV version of those same verses, since KJV is what you named."

As I just wrote to JW, those verses only say that the tomb was empty when the women got there. They don't say when it became empty.

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Post #28

Post by Imprecise Interrupt »

rstrats wrote: Imprecise Interrupt,
re: "After more than 7 years, nobody has provided any published author to support your claim..., why are you - ahem – resurrecting this thread? Again?"

Because there be someone new visiting this topic who knows of an author.



re: "And since it is NOT the only place in the KJV that establishes the first day of the week, as you thought..."

I'm not aware of any other place.



re: "Last time I quoted ESV. Here is the KJV version of those same verses, since KJV is what you named."

As I just wrote to JW, those verses only say that the tomb was empty when the women got there. They don't say when it became empty.

Irrelevant to what you wanted to find scholarly support for. As per the OP, you wanted it for Mark 16:9 being used for that purpose, to establish the first day of the week as the time of the resurrection.

Keep in mind that the first day of the week began at sundown Saturday evening. Do you think an observant Jew like Jesus would perform the work of getting up and leaving the tomb on the Sabbath?

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Post #29

Post by JehovahsWitness »

rstrats wrote: ... you must certainly know that there are numerous published papers which argue that the mentioned Sabbath is not referring to the weekly Sabbath.
I am fully aware of what a biblical Sabbath is , my post takes into account the various Sabbaths that came into play in identifying when the resurrection likely took place (see quotation for more details).


rstrats wrote:
I see no implication there of a 1st day resurrection.
I cannot, nor do I care to comment on what you can or cannot "see"; I simlly responded to your request for published information. I can see nothing in your post inviting discussion on you and can only suggest you settle on the conclusion you find most convincing.


Regards,

JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
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Post #30

Post by rstrats »

Imprecise Interrupt,
re: "Irrelevant to what you wanted to find scholarly support for."

I agree. So why did you post what you did in your post #26?

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