Matthew 12:40

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rstrats
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Matthew 12:40

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Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion� with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase “x� days and “x�nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the “x� days and at least parts of the “x� nights?

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Re: Matthew 12:40

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Someone new visiting this topic may know of examples. And again, that "someone new" needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.

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Re: Matthew 12:40

Post #192

Post by PinSeeker »

I'll do a quick in and out on this one, rstrats, just for you. :) And because things are so slow around here these days... :D

How about we use the Bible itself? And this example is even more explicit. In Esther 4:16, we find Esther exhorting Mordecai to persuade the Jews to fast (relevant part underlined by me):
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"Go, gather all the Jews to be found in Susa, and hold a fast on my behalf, and do not eat or drink for three days, night or day."
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This was clearly in preparation for her highly risky attempt to see the king. Yet just two verses later, in Esther 5:1, we read (again, relevant part underlined by me):
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On the third day Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king’s palace, in front of the king’s quarters, while the king was sitting on his royal throne inside the throne room opposite the entrance to the palace.”
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If three days and nights were counted in the same way as we count them today, then Esther could not have seen the king until the fourth day. This is completely analogous to the situation with Jesus’s crucifixion and resurrection. Yes, in Matthew 12, Jesus says (again, relevant part underlined by me):
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"For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
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But we have to couple that with what we read from Matthew's hand in Matthew 16:21 (...again, relevant part underlined by me; the same way we couple Esther 4:16 with Esther 5:1 above):
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"From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised."
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Now, in the account of Jonah, who Jesus references, there are no markers; Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights (Jonah 1:17). After Jonah's prayer, we read only that "the LORD spoke to the fish, and it vomited Jonah out upon the dry land," and then He told Jonah to "go to Nineveh," and Jonah went "according to the word of the LORD." I'm not going to try to convince you of this, but I feel 100% confident that Jonah went on the third day. I would submit to you that all three of these passages are perfectly consistent with regard to the passage of time, and I would further submit to you that this is purposeful, as -- ultimately speaking -- the same Person authored both the books of Esther and Matthew. If the three days and nights were counted the way we count them today, then yes, Jesus would have to have risen on the fourth day. But, by comparing these passages, we can see that in the minds of people in Bible times, “the third day” is equivalent to “after three days.”

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Matthew 12:40

Post #193

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PinSeeker,

I don't see where the Esther account precludes at least a portion of each one of three daytimes and at least a portion of each one of three night times. BTW, "three days, night or day" is not necessarily the same thing as "three days and three nights".

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Re: Matthew 12:40

Post #194

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rstrats wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:46 pm "three days, night or day" is not necessarily the same thing as "three days and three nights".
Well I agree, actually. "Three days, night or day" only includes the possibility of the totality of "three days and three nights." But the point regarding "three days, night or day," it can readily be seen -- by anyone who doesn't close his or her mind to it -- is that "three days" includes the totality of three days and three nights, or any portion of three consecutive days excluding nighttime hours, or any portion of three nights excluding daytime hours, or anywhere in between... it's all covered. And this is generally true in the Bible. Whether you accept that or not is up to you. But it's true... :)

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Re: Matthew 12:40

Post #195

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[Replying to PinSeeker in post #195]



Assuming that the Esther account is an example of where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur, that would only be one instance. The issue is with regard to the commonality of such practice.

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Re: Matthew 12:40

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Perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

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Re: Matthew 12:40

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And again, that "someone new" needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.

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Re: Matthew 12:40

Post #198

Post by 1213 »

rstrats wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:26 pm And again, that "someone new" needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.
There is no Biblical reason to think crucifixion happened at sixth day. It was probably Thursday, or Wednesday.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/r.berg/Kuvat/Passover.png

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Re: Matthew 12:40

Post #199

Post by rstrats »

1213 wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:38 pm
rstrats wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:26 pm
There is no Biblical reason to think crucifixion happened at sixth day. It was probably Thursday, or Wednesday.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/r.berg/Kuvat/Passover.png

That would be an issue for a different topic.

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Re: Matthew 12:40

Post #200

Post by rstrats »

Since we're well into the new year, maybe someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

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