Matthew 12:40

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
rstrats
Scholar
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Matthew 12:40

Post #1

Post by rstrats »

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion� with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase “x� days and “x�nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the “x� days and at least parts of the “x� nights?

rstrats
Scholar
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #151

Post by rstrats »

brianbbs67,
re: "The day does begin at sunset according to our Creator."

And this topic is intended for those who believe that.



re: "http://thewayofthemessiah.org/tsp.html Interesting take and seems to fit perfectly.

But not with this topic which is concerned with a different issue.

rstrats
Scholar
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #152

Post by rstrats »

I just realized that it makes no difference with regard to this topic as to whether of not a calendar day begain at sunset or at sunrise. There could only be 2 nights either way.

rstrats
Scholar
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #153

Post by rstrats »

Someone new looking in may know of examples.

brianbbs67
Guru
Posts: 1871
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:07 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #154

Post by brianbbs67 »

rstrats wrote: Someone new looking in may know of examples.
That would be interesting, but I wouldn't hold your breath. That thing you mention in the OP has been a theological excuse the church has used since it was pointed out to them.(which probably was 1700 years ago)

rstrats
Scholar
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #155

Post by rstrats »

brianbbs67,
re: "That would be interesting, but I wouldn't hold your breath."

I gave up holding my breath years ago. But I'm still optimistic enough to think there may be someone in the future looking in on this topic who might know of examples.



re: "That thing you mention in the OP has been a theological excuse the church has used since it was pointed out to them.(which probably was 1700 years ago)"

Do you know of an actual instance where the church has tried to explain the lack of a 3rd night - which would be the case with a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection - by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time?

brianbbs67
Guru
Posts: 1871
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:07 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #156

Post by brianbbs67 »

[Replying to post 153 by rstrats]

Yes,here's a weak and misleading defense of good Friday.

The misleading is in the pagan roots. The old English Oestern, comes from the Germanic Oesterra(Ishtar's german name). In fact Austria in german is Oesterreich, which means the kingdom of Oesterra. Like I said this is an old argument, but one that people need to hear.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... -wednesday

rstrats
Scholar
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #157

Post by rstrats »

brianbbs67,
re: "Yes,here's a weak and misleading defense of good Friday."

Sorry; my question in post #153 was poorly worded with regard to its intent. Let me try again - "In an effort to explain the lack of a 3rd night, are there any examples given by the church which show that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with a event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred?"

rstrats
Scholar
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #158

Post by rstrats »

Perhaps someone new visiting this topic might know of examples.

brianbbs67
Guru
Posts: 1871
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:07 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #159

Post by brianbbs67 »

Did you read what i posted?

When Scripture indicates that Jesus rose on the first day of the week, therefore, it means that he rose on the day that began at sunset on Saturday and lasted until sunset on Sunday. Since we are told his tomb was found empty “after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week� (Matt. 28:1), he must have risen between sunset Saturday and dawn Sunday. Whether this was before or after midnight Scripture does not say. He might have risen either Saturday night or Sunday morning before dawn, though, for purposes of determining when he was crucified, it doesn’t matter.

In the Bible, parts of time units were frequently counted as wholes. Thus a king might be said to have reigned for two years, even if he reigned for only fourteen months. In the same way, a day and a night does not mean a period of twenty-four hours. It can refer to any portion of a day coupled with any portion of a night. The expression “three days and three nights� could be used as simply a slightly hyperbolic way of referring to “three days.�

As Protestant Bible scholar R. T. France notes: “Three days and three nights was a Jewish idiom to a period covering only two nights� (Matthew, 213).

Similarly, D. A. Carson, regarded as one of the deans of conservative Protestant Bible exegesis, explains: “In rabbinical thought a day and a night make an onah, and a part of an onah is as the whole. . . . Thus according to Jewish tradition, ‘three days and three nights’ need mean no more than ‘three days’ or the combination of any part of three separate days� (Expositor’s Bible Commentary, 8:296).

If Jesus was crucified and died Friday afternoon, that would be the first day; at sundown on Friday the second day would begin; then at sundown on Saturday the third day would begin. So Jesus was indeed “raised on the third day� (Matt. 20:19).

Scripture repeatedly tells us that Jesus was crucified on “the day of preparation,� which was the first-century Jewish way of referring to Friday, the day of preparation for the Sabbath. This is why the women were not able to anoint his body before he was buried—

See the link for the rest

rstrats
Scholar
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #160

Post by rstrats »

brianbbs67,
re: "Did you read what i posted? "

Yes, and nowhere did the link provide examples to show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

Post Reply