The Heresy Subjects

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steps
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The Heresy Subjects

Post #1

Post by steps »

The members are asking and asking about God . each time a new idea or a new subject about him . they are measuring by their opinions , and judging on God by their opinions ...

All these subject are heresies .

Some of them enjoy writing about these subjects , some of them are arguing only . and few are looking for the truth .

who has the right to speak about God [ Allah ] ?

you , I , he , she , or they …. , philosophers , Prophets , angels … no creature has the right to speak about God by his own opinions .

Allah is the only one who has this right .. because no one saw him .
No one knows his absolute wisdom , no one knows his absolute knowledge . except the things that he informed us about himself about some of his wisdom and some of his absolute knowledge .

These information is more than enough to believe in him , to accept him , and to worship him only ..

the subjects of the argued persons and the searchers of enjoyment are meaningless . because they are not depending on any trusted source from Allah .

[3. And yet among men there are such as dispute about Allah, without knowledge, and follow every evil one obstinate in rebellion!4. About the (Evil One) it is decreed that whoever turns to him for friendship, him will he lead astray, and he will guide him to the Penalty of the Fire.] Surah 22

[8. Yet there is among men such a one as disputes about Allah, without Knowledge, without Guidance, and without a Book of Enlightenment,-9. (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah. for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).10. (It will be said): "This is because of the deeds which thy hands sent forth, for verily Allah is not unjust to His servants. ] Surah 22

[20. Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!21. When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that Allah has sent down, they say: "Nay, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). "What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of the (Blazing) Fire ] Surah 31

From where can we get the information about Allah ?

From his holy books . and the only remaining book without corruption is the holy Quran . then all these heresies will disappear for the searcher for the truth .
the gospel is a true book from Allah , but the Christians corrupted it .
the Torah is a true book from Allah , but the Jews corrupted it . and hide many of it .

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micatala
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Post #11

Post by micatala »

steps wrote: The members are asking and asking about God . each time a new idea or a new subject about him . they are measuring by their opinions , and judging on God by their opinions ...

All these subject are heresies .

Some of them enjoy writing about these subjects , some of them are arguing only . and few are looking for the truth .

who has the right to speak about God [ Allah ] ?

you , I , he , she , or they …. , philosophers , Prophets , angels … no creature has the right to speak about God by his own opinions .

Allah is the only one who has this right .. because no one saw him .
No one knows his absolute wisdom , no one knows his absolute knowledge . except the things that he informed us about himself about some of his wisdom and some of his absolute knowledge .

These information is more than enough to believe in him , to accept him , and to worship him only ..

the subjects of the argued persons and the searchers of enjoyment are meaningless . because they are not depending on any trusted source from Allah .

[3. And yet among men there are such as dispute about Allah, without knowledge, and follow every evil one obstinate in rebellion!4. About the (Evil One) it is decreed that whoever turns to him for friendship, him will he lead astray, and he will guide him to the Penalty of the Fire.] Surah 22

[8. Yet there is among men such a one as disputes about Allah, without Knowledge, without Guidance, and without a Book of Enlightenment,-9. (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah. for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).10. (It will be said): "This is because of the deeds which thy hands sent forth, for verily Allah is not unjust to His servants. ] Surah 22

[20. Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!21. When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that Allah has sent down, they say: "Nay, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). "What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of the (Blazing) Fire ] Surah 31

From where can we get the information about Allah ?

From his holy books . and the only remaining book without corruption is the holy Quran . then all these heresies will disappear for the searcher for the truth .
the gospel is a true book from Allah , but the Christians corrupted it .
the Torah is a true book from Allah , but the Jews corrupted it . and hide many of it .


Moderator Comment

This post seems to be in violation of the preaching guidelines.

I am also moving it to the theology forum.

Please review the Rules.


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Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
" . . . the line separating good and evil passes, not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart . . . ." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Dantalion
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Post #12

Post by Dantalion »

micatala wrote:
JohnPaul wrote: assisigirl wrote:
ps. I am doing an article on rudimentary grazers and I need to know the difference between a donkey and a jackass. All links gratefully received
A jackass is a male donkey and a Jenny is a female. As demonstrated by steps, the males tend to bray louder and are more obstinate.
:warning: Moderator Warning


This is clearly uncivil and unproductive.


Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
I'm very sorry, but would you care to explain why Steps isn't on probation yet ?
(And I know this is going to be replied with 'don't talk about other users here or question acts of mods, however, I feel like everybody here should see and think about this)

1. He calls our debates heresy. This should be a big one. He clearly doesn't agree with the principles of open debate and freedom of speech, let alone the purpose of this site
2. He only offers Koran quotes and never backs up any claims. He doesn't ask debate questions. He has repeatedly violated preaching guidelines.
3. on a humane note, he justifies the stoning of women and openly supports the Taliban. This is NOT a matter of 'his opinion versus mine', this is somebody who defends the violation of human rights, and yet not a single reply from a moderator is being made.

I would like to know why nobody is doing something, and I have chosen to do this openly.

Also, why is this moved to theology and not closed ?
This is EXACTLY the kind of post that does not belong on a discussion forum.
He states that the posts questioning God are heresy.
He also proclaims all questioning 'lies'.

What's going on here ?

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dianaiad
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Post #13

Post by dianaiad »

Dantalion wrote:
micatala wrote:
JohnPaul wrote: assisigirl wrote:
ps. I am doing an article on rudimentary grazers and I need to know the difference between a donkey and a jackass. All links gratefully received
A jackass is a male donkey and a Jenny is a female. As demonstrated by steps, the males tend to bray louder and are more obstinate.
:warning: Moderator Warning


This is clearly uncivil and unproductive.


Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
I'm very sorry, but would you care to explain why Steps isn't on probation yet ?
(And I know this is going to be replied with 'don't talk about other users here or question acts of mods, however, I feel like everybody here should see and think about this)

1. He calls our debates heresy. This should be a big one. He clearly doesn't agree with the principles of open debate and freedom of speech, let alone the purpose of this site
2. He only offers Koran quotes and never backs up any claims. He doesn't ask debate questions. He has repeatedly violated preaching guidelines.
3. on a humane note, he justifies the stoning of women and openly supports the Taliban. This is NOT a matter of 'his opinion versus mine', this is somebody who defends the violation of human rights, and yet not a single reply from a moderator is being made.

I would like to know why nobody is doing something, and I have chosen to do this openly.

Also, why is this moved to theology and not closed ?
This is EXACTLY the kind of post that does not belong on a discussion forum.
He states that the posts questioning God are heresy.
He also proclaims all questioning 'lies'.

What's going on here ?
I'm taking this, not as a continuation of a discussion of moderator action, but for the real question being asked here:

Steps (who, quite frankly, I think to be a very frightening person and whose posts represent to me the stereotype of the sort of Muslim thinking behind terrorist attacks) has a specific religious world view. S/he (probably he) holds opinions that annoy/disagree with/downright scare everybody I've see respond to him so far.

BUT....

How are his opinions, though they may be uniformly unpopular, any different in form (WORDS) than those of any of the rest of us, whose opinions only annoy some, or even most, of us?

In other words, as much as the man seems to justify the prejudices of anti-Muslim rhetoric and action, what is it, really, about him that prompts this urge to get him on probation/banned/whatever?

I'm neither questioning, nor defending, moderator action here. Their decisions will be made according to the forum rules as they exist, not upon popular opinion or what we might all actually wish the forum rules mean. The question I'm asking in this post is more basic, and in fact, only deals with Steps tangentially, if that.

The question is: at what point does popular opinion of the content of posts alter our perception of freedom of speech/religion?

I'm a bit weird here: the more distasteful/objectionable/disagreeable/downright wrongheaded and idiotic the thing being said, the more likely I am to worry about abrogating freedom of speech when I want to throttle the speaker. "Throttle" in the sense of 'stopping him from talking."

I'm less likely to worry about it when the person is saying something I agree with...discourteously. So what DO we, as individuals and members of a free society, do when we come up against opinions so antithetical to our own? When do we call for destroying the presses, burning the books, silencing the voice?

How can we know that our call is because the speaker breaks rules of discourse...and when it's just because we don't like what is being said?

I'm glad, right this minute, that I'm not a moderator.

steps
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Post #14

Post by steps »

Maybe I used some hard expressions against the members .

And the moderator has the right to apply the rules .

But all of this will not change the target of the subject : no one has the right to speak about God , except God himself .

Did God give you the permission to speak about him ?
Did God give you some knowledge about him ?
Did you see God ? so you have the ability to speak about him according to a certain knowledge .

We all sane , very sane …. If we want to talk about any subject … firstly : we have to collect some Data and information about this subject . Because no one want to be accused by lying . or to appear like the fools .

This is what are you doing about the case of God … a subject after a subject without any knowledge .

For example : I do not know anything about the moderator Mr. micatala .

Do I have the right to speak about him ?
And if I speak about him , do you consider my subject about him freedom or lies ? especially if my subject is going to contain impolite words about him .or I was accusing him without any knowledge .
Of course my subjects about Mr. micatala . will be lies



Depending on this example : I am very civilized , and my subject is not against the rules of the forum .


Do not gave me the feeling that it is personal matter .

My respect , Thanks

mchristos606
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Re: The Heresy Subjects

Post #15

Post by mchristos606 »

steps wrote: The members are asking and asking about God . each time a new idea or a new subject about him . they are measuring by their opinions , and judging on God by their opinions ...

All these subject are heresies .

Some of them enjoy writing about these subjects , some of them are arguing only . and few are looking for the truth .

who has the right to speak about God [ Allah ] ?

you , I , he , she , or they …. , philosophers , Prophets , angels … no creature has the right to speak about God by his own opinions .

Allah is the only one who has this right .. because no one saw him .
No one knows his absolute wisdom , no one knows his absolute knowledge . except the things that he informed us about himself about some of his wisdom and some of his absolute knowledge .

These information is more than enough to believe in him , to accept him , and to worship him only ..

the subjects of the argued persons and the searchers of enjoyment are meaningless . because they are not depending on any trusted source from Allah .

[3. And yet among men there are such as dispute about Allah, without knowledge, and follow every evil one obstinate in rebellion!4. About the (Evil One) it is decreed that whoever turns to him for friendship, him will he lead astray, and he will guide him to the Penalty of the Fire.] Surah 22

[8. Yet there is among men such a one as disputes about Allah, without Knowledge, without Guidance, and without a Book of Enlightenment,-9. (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah. for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).10. (It will be said): "This is because of the deeds which thy hands sent forth, for verily Allah is not unjust to His servants. ] Surah 22

[20. Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!21. When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that Allah has sent down, they say: "Nay, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). "What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of the (Blazing) Fire ] Surah 31

From where can we get the information about Allah ?

From his holy books . and the only remaining book without corruption is the holy Quran . then all these heresies will disappear for the searcher for the truth .
the gospel is a true book from Allah , but the Christians corrupted it .
the Torah is a true book from Allah , but the Jews corrupted it . and hide many of it .



I think the best thing to do is to actually engage the person in conversation and then try to point out the total absurdity of his claims. He is not any different than fundamental Christians who believe that every word in the Bible is true word of God. Most of those people are so terribly confused in their minds that they become iniquitous , all the while thinking they are doing God's work.

While it won't change the muslims perspective , because they are so deep into the Quran , it might help those people who don't know much about the Quran but are thinking about becoming muslim. It might also help the rest of us in realizing just how utterly EVIL the Quran is. Please remember that the Muslims claim that the Quran is the true and UNADULTERATED word of Allah. As the OP states , all the rest of the " holy books " have been corrupted.

Is this from God The Father or some kind of a demon ?

Sahih International -4:56- Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.


http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=22985


As you read these verses from the Quran , ask yourself : " Why such HATRED " ?













:D

mchristos606
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Re: The Heresy Subjects

Post #16

Post by mchristos606 »

steps wrote: The members are asking and asking about God . each time a new idea or a new subject about him . they are measuring by their opinions , and judging on God by their opinions ...

All these subject are heresies .

Some of them enjoy writing about these subjects , some of them are arguing only . and few are looking for the truth .

who has the right to speak about God [ Allah ] ?

you , I , he , she , or they …. , philosophers , Prophets , angels … no creature has the right to speak about God by his own opinions .

Allah is the only one who has this right .. because no one saw him .
No one knows his absolute wisdom , no one knows his absolute knowledge . except the things that he informed us about himself about some of his wisdom and some of his absolute knowledge .

These information is more than enough to believe in him , to accept him , and to worship him only ..

the subjects of the argued persons and the searchers of enjoyment are meaningless . because they are not depending on any trusted source from Allah .

[3. And yet among men there are such as dispute about Allah, without knowledge, and follow every evil one obstinate in rebellion!4. About the (Evil One) it is decreed that whoever turns to him for friendship, him will he lead astray, and he will guide him to the Penalty of the Fire.] Surah 22

[8. Yet there is among men such a one as disputes about Allah, without Knowledge, without Guidance, and without a Book of Enlightenment,-9. (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah. for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).10. (It will be said): "This is because of the deeds which thy hands sent forth, for verily Allah is not unjust to His servants. ] Surah 22

[20. Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!21. When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that Allah has sent down, they say: "Nay, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). "What! even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Penalty of the (Blazing) Fire ] Surah 31

From where can we get the information about Allah ?

From his holy books . and the only remaining book without corruption is the holy Quran . then all these heresies will disappear for the searcher for the truth .
the gospel is a true book from Allah , but the Christians corrupted it .
the Torah is a true book from Allah , but the Jews corrupted it . and hide many of it .



I think the best thing to do is to actually engage the person in conversation and then try to point out the total absurdity of his claims. He is not any different than fundamental Christians who believe that every word in the Bible is true word of God. Most of those people are so terribly confused in their minds that they become iniquitous , all the while thinking they are doing God's work.

While it won't change the muslims perspective , because they are so deep into the Quran , it might help those people who don't know much about the Quran but are thinking about becoming muslim. It might also help the rest of us in realizing just how utterly EVIL the Quran is. Please remember that the Muslims claim that the Quran is the true and UNADULTERATED word of Allah. As the OP states , all the rest of the " holy books " have been corrupted.

Is this from God The Father or some kind of a demon ?

Sahih International -4:56- Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.


http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=22985


As you read these verses from the Quran , ask yourself : " Why such HATRED " ?













:D

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Post #17

Post by otseng »

Moderator Action

I don't any valid debate going on here. Closing the thread.


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