Reincarnation and the Bible

amptramp · Post by **amptramp** » Mon May 12, 2014 1:10 am

In John 3:3

In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the Kingdom of God unless he is born again."

It is always fun to see Biblical literalists tap-dance around that statement.

and in Matthew 17:12-13

"But I tell you Elijah has come and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."

Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

whereas we already know that John was born shortly before Jesus in Luke 1:44

"As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears the baby in my womb leaped for joy."

So we know that John the Baptist had a normal birth near the time of Jesus' birth but that he had been Elijah and Jesus had told Nicodemus that he had to be born again. This seems to point to a literal rebirth rather than a figurative change in life. It appears that reincarnation (which was also preached by Origen among other leaders of the early church) has been eliminated from the doctrine. I believe reincarnation and the doctrine of karma is the only way to understand that none of the law shall pass away for each individual and that there is an actual consequence rather than a go / no-go gauging of each person at the end of life.

Anyone ready to comment on this?

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:40 am

sleepyhead wrote: Hello Bede,

In looking at the verses it would appear that you are correct in that Jesus will be the going away and then returning.
One of the servants who started with 5 talents increased it to ten and then he was given another talent. If you are correct that we only come to earth once then what is he going to do with the 11 talents? Will the servant who only has 4 be prevented from getting more talents?

This story can be read in terms of our current life and our future life.

All we have a gift from God. We can use God's gifts to grow in love of God and others. If we do that God will reward us here in this life and in heaven*. Whilst the context of this parable is primarily about the end it is also referring to how we live now. For example the parable of the ten virgins is seen as not only being ready for the coming of the bridegroom (Jesus) but also about the way we live now.

If we do not use them in that way God will strip them away from us and we will be left with nothing.

* I mean spiritual rewards not monetary. I'm not supporting the "prosperity gospel" here.

sleepyhead · Post by **sleepyhead** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:59 pm

Hello bede,

>>> If we do that God will reward us here in this life and in heaven*. <<<

The disagreement I have with this is how we would use the talents (however we define them) in heaven. He gave one talent to the servant with ten. That would be an unearned talent. By taking the talent away according to your definition, God/Jesus would be preventing one servant from growing in love of God and others.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:23 am

sleepyhead wrote: Hello bede,

>>> If we do that God will reward us here in this life and in heaven*. <<<

The disagreement I have with this is how we would use the talents (however we define them) in heaven. He gave one talent to the servant with ten. That would be an unearned talent. By taking the talent away according to your definition, God/Jesus would be preventing one servant from growing in love of God and others.

Hello sleepyhead,

I think there is a danger here of trying to read too much into a parable, and put significance into something that was not meant.

The parable is set in the context of teaching about the coming judgement.

We are warned to be ready at all times and in this parable to use the various gifts that God has given us. Then, when we come to judgement, we will be rewarded for using those gifts well. If we do not use them (the man with the one talent) will lose what we have and gain no reward, but be cast out.

When I suggested we are rewarded now I was thinking of God's grace to help us grow in love and use what God has given us.

But as I said the main point is about the final judgement and heaven or hell.

What the significance is abouit the one with ten being given the one from the oen condemned I do not know. Perhaps it has none.

sleepyhead · Post by **sleepyhead** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:10 am

Bede wrote:
But as I said the main point is about the final judgment and heaven or hell.

Hello Bede,

All reincarnation means is that we live lives on earth more than once. A person can believe in reincarnation and still believe in all of the above. It just means that the final judgment won't be based on only one lifetime and by logical extension won't be based on whether an individual was baptized, or had a particular belief.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:14 am

sleepyhead wrote:
Bede wrote:
But as I said the main point is about the final judgment and heaven or hell.

Hello Bede,

All reincarnation means is that we live lives on earth more than once. A person can believe in reincarnation and still believe in all of the above. It just means that the final judgment won't be based on only one lifetime and by logical extension won't be based on whether an individual was baptized, or had a particular belief.

That contradicts Christianity as it has been understood for 2,000 years.

Korah · Post by **Korah** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:04 pm

[Replying to post 25 by Bede]

There are probably lots of things that Christianity has believed for 2000 years that YOU don't believe, like the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, veneration of images, daily celebration of the Mass (Communion), so why stop at Purgatory (er, reincarnation as I see it).

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:52 pm

Korah wrote: [Replying to post 25 by Bede]

There are probably lots of things that Christianity has believed for 2000 years that YOU don't believe, like the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, veneration of images, daily celebration of the Mass (Communion), so why stop at Purgatory (er, reincarnation as I see it).

Purgatory is not re-incarnation.

sleepyhead · Post by **sleepyhead** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:56 pm

Hello Bede,

>>>That contradicts Christianity as it has been understood for 2,000 years.<<<

I'm not clear on exactly what "that" refers to. Is it everything I wrote or just some of it. As zzyzx pointed out, the bible can be used as proof. The fact that Christianity (or some sect of Christianity) believes something different isn't a valid proof.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:07 pm

[Replying to post 28 by sleepyhead]

Re-incarnation contradicts Christianity as it has been understood for 2,000 years.

I see no proofs that the Bible supports the notion. An interpretation of a very minor detail of a parable about being ready for the second coming of Jesus Christ, set in the context of other parables and teaching about being ready for the second coming of Jesus Christ is no proof, not even a valid hint.

Re-incarnation is just not in the Bible.

sleepyhead · Post by **sleepyhead** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:33 pm

[Replying to post 29 by Bede]
Hello Bede,

As I mentioned earlier God chose not to tell Moses about the afterlife. While the writers may have had their opinions and like the writer to the Hebrews, he let his personal beliefs slip into his writing, they really didn't know. Jesus is the only one who claimed to know.