What did Jesus die for?

[man]

I'm not talking about Jesus ding for your sins or any silly philosophical nonsense like that, I am talking about the reality of the day to day circumstances surrounding his execution at the time.

Why did the religious people at the time ask the government to execute Jesus?

The religious people asked the government to execute him because they believed he was a heretic.

Being a heretic is the sin Jesus died for in the eyes of the religious people that demanded his execution.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by man]

The religious leaders urged the government to do away with Jesus because they could not. They accused Jesus of sedition, of saying that he was a king. This would be in opposition to Caesar, so they said. Pilate caved in, even though he could find no fault in Jesus, and despite his own wife's warning because of a dream she had.

The religious leaders were totally concerned with their place in the politics of Judea, and their ability to control the common people.

"If we let him go on like this, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." (John 11:48, NASB)


They wanted him out of the way because he revealed them as the hypocrites that they were. (See Matthew chapter 23.)

[Elijah John]

I'm not talking about Jesus ding for your sins or any silly philosophical nonsense like that, I am talking about the reality of the day to day circumstances surrounding his execution at the time.

Why did the religious people at the time ask the government to execute Jesus?

The religious people asked the government to execute him because they believed he was a heretic.

Being a heretic is the sin Jesus died for in the eyes of the religious people that demanded his execution.

Call it heresy, but many historians believe it was his disturbance in the Temple, running afoul of Roman aligned Jewish priesthood that led to Jesus martyrdom.

I doubt the Romans would have cared if Jesus or any other Jew committed "heresy" by their preaching.

Unless, of course, that preaching inspired insurrection against the occupying Roman authority.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by man]

The account itself is clear enough, Jesus was accursed of blasphemy and although innocent found guilty in the religious court. But, according to Luke, those same religious leaders changed their charges when before Pilate accusing him (Jesus) of:

“ [1] subverting our nation, [2] forbidding the paying of taxes to Caesar, and [3] saying he himself is Christ a king.�—Luke 23:2.


JW

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by man]

The account itself is clear enough, Jesus was accursed of blasphemy and although innocent found guilty in the religious court. But, according to Luke, those same religious leaders changed their charges when before Pilate accusing him (Jesus) of:

“ [1] subverting our nation, [2] forbidding the paying of taxes to Caesar, and [3] saying he himself is Christ a king.�—Luke 23:2.


JW

From your JW pov, (addressed to onewithhim as well) what do you think was the cause of those original blasphemy charges? Evangelicals often say it was because Jesus claimed to be God, I'm guessing you folks don't agree?

Others here say it was because Jesus declared sins forgiven, and the Jewish authorities didn't like that.

[JehovahsWitness]

From your JW pov, (addressed to onewithhim as well) what do you think was the cause of those original blasphemy charges?

The account itself explains they attempted to base the charge on statements Jesus had made during his ministry (such as his claim to be the "son of God" which in their opinion was "making [himself] equal with God", his claim to be the promised Messiah, the (false) charge of blaspemy against the temple.

The fact is that throughout his ministry the religious leaders had attempted to entrap Jesus in some declaration or other in order to condemn him. While not specifically mentioned during his trial, they had previously taken objection to his implying he had the authority to forgive sin, his disruption of temple affairs, his position on the paying of taxes, his lack of regard for rabbonic tradition, to mention just a few...

The real "cause" was in fact nothing less that their own jealousy of him, their thirst for power and by their own admission, fear that this miracle working Nazarene would eventually declare himself king and take away their own power influence and of course resources.

Jesus never claimed to be God (as in Almighty God the Creator YHWH). If he had they would have had no need to bother with the other minor accusations.

JW

[Elijah John]

From your JW pov, (addressed to onewithhim as well) what do you think was the cause of those original blasphemy charges?

The account itself explains they attempted to base the charge on statements Jesus had made during his ministry (such as his claim to be the "son of God" which in their opinion was "making [himself] equal with God", his claim to be the promised Messiah, the (false) charge of blaspemy against the temple.

The fact is that throughout his ministry the religious leaders had attempted to entrap Jesus in some declaration or other in order to condemn him. While not specifically mentioned during his trial, they had previously taken objection to his implying he had the authority to forgive sin, his disruption of temple affairs, his position on the paying of taxes, his lack of regard for rabbonic tradition, to mention just a few...

The real "cause" was in fact nothing less that their own jealousy of him, their thirst for power and by their own admission, fear that this miracle working Nazarene would eventually declare himself king and take away their own power influence and of course resources.

Jesus never claimed to be God (as in Almighty God the Creator YHWH). If he had they would have had no need to bother with the other minor accusations.

JW

I don't think I can disagree with any of that. The religious leaders of the time did seem to equate "Son of God" with the "Messiah"..

Historians, however, point out that Jesus was not the only man going around the Palestine of that time claiming to be the Messsiah, and most of the others were not executed for saying so, more often they were simply ignored.

On that last point especially, we agree. But even IF Jesus claimed to be God, again, he would have most likely been dismissed as insane, ignored, and left to his ravings.

Claiming to be God was not a stoning offense, certainly not a an offense that would call for crucifixion, the Romans would not have cared one whit about that.

[man]

Now about the silly philosophical nonsense, don't you guys think it would have been more productive to say Jesus died because often religious people will do mean things to people who do not believe the same things they do and this is a lesson on why they should not do that?

Just think of all the bloodshed and suffering you could have avoided.

[JehovahsWitness]

Now about the silly philosophical nonsense, don't you guys think it would have been more productive to say Jesus died because often religious people will do mean things to people who do not believe the same things they do and this is a lesson on why they should not do that?

Just think of all the bloodshed and suffering you could have avoided.

Imperfect humans always have a tendancy to misuse authority and favor greed. The bible affirms man simple wasn't created with the capacity to successfully self govern. (Jer 10:23). In short, if it weren't religion which is more often than not a tool of secular governments to manipulate and exploit people, then it would be something else. It's naive to think mankind would enter into a eutopia in the absense of religion, without a basic change in human nature it would be the same old dance, different sandals.

JW

[man]

Now about the silly philosophical nonsense, don't you guys think it would have been more productive to say Jesus died because often religious people will do mean things to people who do not believe the same things they do and this is a lesson on why they should not do that?

Just think of all the bloodshed and suffering you could have avoided.

Imperfect humans always have a tendancy to misuse authority and favor greed. The bible affirms man simple wasn't created with the capacity to successfully self govern. (Jer 10:23). In short, if it weren't religion which is more often than not a tool of secular governments to manipulate and exploit people, then it would be something else. It's naive to think mankind would enter into a eutopia in the absense of religion, without a basic change in human nature it would be the same old dance, different sandals.

JW

So we would be the same and we'd still kill people just under a different banner than religion.