Paradise on Earth

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onewithhim
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Paradise on Earth

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1931

Post by onewithhim »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:01 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:15 pm I am interested to see how much a renewed paradisaical earth really means to people today. Is it a thought that they would accept and embrace enthusiastically if they believed that it could be true?
Not me! Though I do admit it's entirely canonical. Here, the fringe guys have it right and the mainstream Christians... apparently... do not read the Bible. Most of what is described as the ultimate reward for good behaviour clearly involves still being alive.

I happen not to want my body. I don't want to need to eat, to grind up bits of plants and animals and shove them down my esophagus only to later push them out as filthy excrement. I don't want to shed skin or hair. I don't want to have calluses on my feet or hands. I find life pretty disgusting and would love to be just consciousness. I'm healthy and I exercise, and I have minimal problems, I just don't want any body at all.
Well, sir, you certainly don't have to live in Paradise with your body. Jehovah doesn't force people to accept his blessings. His plan does not include having people being "just consciousness," so you won't have that either, according to the Scriptures.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1932

Post by onewithhim »

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them....They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD [Jehovah], as the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:6,9, KJV)

"I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself....If only you would pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river and your righteousness like the waves of the sea." (Isaiah 48:17,18)


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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1933

Post by onewithhim »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:01 pm "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them....They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD [Jehovah], as the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:6,9, KJV)

"I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself....If only you would pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river and your righteousness like the waves of the sea." (Isaiah 48:17,18)


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I look forward with great anticipation to the time, not far off, when all wars will be gone, all suffering and pain and injustice will be gone forever, and even our dead loved ones coming back to life. The Bible is given to us so that we will know what to expect in days to come, as well as to know who God is and what his purpose is for the earth. It's sad that Satan has blinded the minds of the majority of people (2 Corinthians 4:4). The Bible doesn't teach that everyone goes either to heaven or to a fiery hell. There is a third option (though the fiery hell thing is a lie)---paradise on Earth. This is what Jesus is preparing to give to us, when he takes over ruling the earth from men's lousy governments.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1934

Post by FaithWillDo »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1]

Dear onewithhim,
The earth which scripture states we will inherit is not the physical earth we now dwell upon.

These verses below are teaching about the earth that mankind will inherit:

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

2Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


The inheritance mentioned in Mat 5:5 below is speaking of the new earth.

Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

So what happens to the old earth? This is what Peter says:

2Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The earth will be "burned up".

So with a carnal understanding of scripture, one might conclude that the "earth" and the "new earth" are physical places. However, since Christ's words are "spirit" (John 6:63) and the spirit happens "within" us, scripture cannot be speaking of a physical earth. To understand the truth of Christ's teachings, they need to be spiritually understood.

The verses in 2Peter are speaking about our mind and governing nature. The "heaven" which mankind presently has is our carnal mind. The "new heaven" is the mind of Christ. The "earth" that we presently have is our carnal nature. The "new earth" is the nature which the Holy Spirit gives us.

When we have the "mind of Christ" and we "walk by the Spirit", we are demonstrating that we have been converted and are saved. The moment of conversion happens when Christ returns to us, individually and spiritually, and baptizes us with His Spirit. This event is also called the Latter Rain and is when the old earth and heavens are destroyed within us and we are given a new heaven and earth. This is our inheritance and what it means to be converted and saved. Our salvation is not physical, it is spiritual. Once we are saved, we will be a child of God and will be like Him.

The meek (who are all saved individuals) will inherit the mind of Christ and the nature of the Holy Spirit. This is our inheritance and our salvation!

The Word of God is written in Christ's spiritual language utilizing the Hebrew and Greek language. Paul said this about it:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The words Paul is speaking of in this verse are Hebrew and Greek words which carry meanings which are different than what "man's wisdom teaches".

Here is a simple example:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. So if we are to understand it literally, then that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying. So is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

Since His “words are spirit” (John 6:63), His message must be spiritually understood. Christ’s spiritual message is quite different from what He is literally saying.

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using a spiritual “symbol” to give us His spiritual message. Here Christ uses the symbol of a Sword. To understand what that symbol means, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture – we must compare spiritual with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From these verses, it is easy to understand that a Sword represents the Word of God. So Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who live (those being “born again”) by the Word of God, must likewise perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Word of God.

Water baptism is another symbol which sends the same spiritual message as Matt 26:52. When an individual is baptized in water, the immersion represents the death of their carnal nature (Old Man). The ascension out of the water represents their new birth in Christ in the Kingdom of Heaven. This great work of conversion (salvation) is accomplished by the Word of God (Sword/Christ).

Spiritual understanding of scripture is further explained and expanded by 1Cor 2:13, Isa 28: 10-12 and Psa 119:160.

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.


When a Called Out believer cannot understand the Word of God, their lack of understanding will cause them to “fall backward and be broken”. So what does to “fall backward and be broken” actually mean? This is the same as to “fall away” (Heb 6:4-6) and it means to return to one’s own attempt to be acceptable to God through their own works. This is the sin that leads to death (1John 5:16).

God’s Truth is also presented to us in bits and pieces, which means we must put those pieces together to see the truth:

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

Again, to correctly understand scripture, it must be understood spiritually. For this type of understanding to occur, we must first understand that the words used in scripture do not carry the same meaning as taught by man’s wisdom (1Cor 2:13). Christ’s words are spirit and we are told to understand their spiritual meaning by comparing them with the same spiritual words used elsewhere in scripture. We must compare spiritual with spiritual. We are to also keep in mind that “the sum of God’s Word is truth.

The Word of God is spiritual. For Christ (God's Word) to "appear" to you, you must see Him in spirit and no longer in the flesh.

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

My advice is to pray for your spiritual blindness to be healed. God is the giver of the ultimate "good gift" (the Holy Spirit) to those who ask:

Luke 11:9-13 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1935

Post by onewithhim »

FaithWillDo wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:37 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #1]

Dear onewithhim,
The earth which scripture states we will inherit is not the physical earth we now dwell upon.

These verses below are teaching about the earth that mankind will inherit:

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

2Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


The inheritance mentioned in Mat 5:5 below is speaking of the new earth.

Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

So what happens to the old earth? This is what Peter says:

2Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The earth will be "burned up".

So with a carnal understanding of scripture, one might conclude that the "earth" and the "new earth" are physical places. However, since Christ's words are "spirit" (John 6:63) and the spirit happens "within" us, scripture cannot be speaking of a physical earth. To understand the truth of Christ's teachings, they need to be spiritually understood.
This physical earth will always be here, as that was the intention of God in the beginning. He hasn't changed his mind.

"For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He, the true God...the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it to be inhabited..." (Isaiah 45:18)

"He has founded the earth upon its established places; it will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever." (Psalm 104:5)

When Peter spoke of the world being "burned up," he was using hyperbole or words of symbolism. The words should actually be "discovered, or, UNcovered---revealed," as to what they truly are. The passage should read: "Jehovah's day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved and earth and the works in it will be discovered." (2Peter 3:10)

Why would the literal heavens be destroyed? The whole universe?? By that you can tell that Peter is speaking metaphorically. "The heavens" is the wording used for governments of men, and this is what will be gone with a poetic "hissing sound." Can you imagine the whole universe being destroyed?? No. It is the "heavens" or governments of men, to be replaced by God's own government (Isaiah 9:6,7). All the "elements" that make up the corrupt world of humans will be revealed for what they are, and this world full of wicked men will be destroyed---not the planet.

Peter made that clear when he said in chapter 2 that it would be the same as in Noah's day when "the world of ungodly PEOPLE were destroyed. Was the earth destroyed then? Peter said it would be the same as then. What was destroyed? "A world of ungodly people" (2Peter 2:5 and 2Peter 3:5-7).See also Jesus' words at Matthew 24:37.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1936

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1935]
So what does it mean--a NEW earth? Simply that it is cleaned up (no more pollution and chaos), and there are no more wicked people. It will not be destroyed. Isn't it ridiculous to think of "a new heavens" meaning destruction of all the stars and planets out there in the literal heavens?? Yes, it's absurd. It is also absurd to think of this beautiful earth that we live on as being destroyed. When you have bad tenants you don't destroy the house, you kick out the tenants!

When King David wrote Psalm 37 he had no idea of the earth being destroyed. He wrote about the literal earth:

"Just a little while longer and the wicked one will be no more....But the meek ones will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace....The righteous will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:10,11,29)

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1937

Post by FaithWillDo »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1936]

Dear onewithhim,
I never said the physical earth would be destroyed. I said our carnal mind and nature would be destroyed. The "earth" is a physical symbol which represents a spiritual truth. You are missing the truth of scripture by trying to understand it literally. The Word of God is spiritual. Christ teaches us in this manner to keep His truth hidden so that He can reveal the truth to whom He chooses at a time He chooses.

I don't think you are really reading my posts if you think I said the physical earth would be destroyed.

The primary teaching of scripture is the plan of salvation for mankind. Our salvation is the mission and work of Christ. He will do this work within each of us and He will not fail. When Christ came in the flesh, salvation and how He will accomplish it was His main topic of teaching. All the parables which start out "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on certain aspects of the path of salvation that Christ causes us to follow. Those teachings should be applied "within" us and not out in the world as you do.

The destruction that Christ brings to mankind is necessary for our conversion. Our "heaven" and "earth" must be destroyed and replaced with a new heaven and earth. Mankind cannot be saved unless Christ destroys the old "vessel" (heaven and earth) and makes us into a new vessel (new heaven and earth).

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Christ made us marred without our permission and He will make us into another vessel without our permission. He is our creator and He is still in the process of creating new children of God. He won't stop His work until the last person has been converted.

Do you not understand what conversion/salvation is?

To be saved, Christ must destroy us. BUT from that destruction, He will cause us to be "born again". This is conversion and is a reoccurring theme in scripture and is taught with many different analogies. Mankind is destroyed by the judgment of Christ. The physical symbol used to represent His judgment is "fire". That is why scripture says the earth will be "burned up". All that means is that our carnal nature will be destroyed by judgment. Without that destruction, we cannot be saved and given a "new earth".

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1938

Post by JehovahsWitness »

FaithWillDo wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:38 pm
I never said the physical earth would be destroyed. I said our carnal mind and nature would be destroyed.
So what do you think God's plans are for the literal planet earth?

Image

Will it continue to be mismanaged by humans or will God intervene to solve problems such as ... pollution?
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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1939

Post by FaithWillDo »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1938]

Dear JehovahsWitness,
As for what scripture says will happen to the earth in the future, I do not know of any verses that specifically reveal its future. However, the earth is physical and the physical will no longer be needed for children of God who will have spiritual bodies after they are resurrected. The physical world is for carnal mankind which will cease to exist someday. The spiritual world is for children of God. As Christ said:

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The physical world will no longer be needed in future and as with all physical things, I believe it will come to an end someday.

I am surprised that you didn't quote this well known verse which says the earth will pass away:

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

If you view scripture carnally, then the verse says the physical earth will "pass away" someday. However, Christ's words are "spirit" and they carry a spiritual meaning. The "heaven and earth" Christ is speaking of here is referring to the carnal mind of man (heaven) and his carnal nature (earth). They will most definitely "pass away" for each person when Christ appears to them to convert them. I do not know of any verses which specifically speak of what the future for the physical earth is. Maybe there are some but I do not know them. If they exist, I'm sure they will be found in the OT.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1940

Post by JehovahsWitness »

FaithWillDo wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:48 pm... the earth is physical and the physical will no longer be needed for children of God who will have spiritual bodies after they are resurrected.
So the earth will eventually be useless?

"For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He, the true God...the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it to be inhabited..." (Isaiah 45:18)

"He has founded the earth upon its established places; it will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever." (Psalm 104:5)
FaithWillDo wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:48 pm The physical world will no longer be needed in future and as with all physical things, I believe it will come to an end someday.


I see.


Image
FaithWillDo wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:48 pm As for what scripture says will happen to the earth in the future, I do not know of any verses that specifically reveal its future.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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