Paradise on Earth

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 am

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

Gauleiter88 · Post by **Gauleiter88** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:37 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Gauleiter88 wrote: [Replying to post 28 by JehovahsWitness]

So the JW meaning of resurrection is that when I die, a copy will be made of me and sent off to heaven, or wherever. But why should I care? I am dead. If I live a good life, that copy of me will get all the rewards while I am left to rot in the grave?
When you fall asleep, does a "copy" of you wake up? Death is like a sleep, it will not be a "copy of you" it will BE you. When Lazarus died (or even Jesus for that matter) died and were resurrected, would you say they came back to life or "a copy of them" came back to life?

If there is no spiritual essence or "soul" that survives and enters into the new body, then I would say it is a "copy" that comes back to life. So you are saying that Jesus really died, ceased to exist, and God created him again?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:47 am

Gauleiter88 wrote: If there is no spiritual essence or "soul" that survives and enters into the new body, then I would say it is a "copy" that comes back to life.

There doesn't have to be an invisible (immortal) soul that is transfered from one body to another for the person to come back to life. All that has to be [strike]transferred[/strike] restored is the memories, the personality and emotional and mental make up of that person.

#QUESTION But since we the resurrected will not have the exact same bodies, will that not mean they will be dead and "copies" will be resurrected?

No. A person is the person he or she is because of their personality, their memories the way they look at the world. God, who remembers every detail about them, and stores in his memory every experience they have ever had simply restores the person in a healthy body. Think about it, since the cells in our bodies now are constrantly renewing themselves, we do not actually have the "same body" we had 6 years ago, but does that mean we are presently "a copy" and the man or woman 6 years ago is dead? Of course not, the person (made up of personality, mind, memories etc) is the same although the body is "different". Indeed children's bodies are almost unrecognizable from the body they were born with but does that mean a parent of a 15 year old is parenting a "copy" of their 4 year old child because the original is "gone"?

To illustrate: Imagine if you suddenly woke up in a different body. One the did not resemble you now (please NOTE will not be the case in the resurrection, people will exactly resemble their former selves, I'm just trying to illustrate a point here). How would you convince friends and family it was really *you*? Wouldn't it be by sharing your experiences, speaking about your very particular likes and dislikes, demonstrating the things that you do in a particular way? What would you be doing? Showing that it is your mind, your personality, your very particular idiosyncrasies are what make up "you". And that is what God will re-create.

In the bible this is called a "resurrection".

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:58 am

Gauleiter88 wrote: So you are saying that Jesus really died, ceased to exist, and God created him again?

Yes, Jesus really truly died. That is why the bible say God had to resurrection him. To resurrect someone basically means to bring the person back to life (the word literally means a standing (back) up). If Jesus never died (but continued conscious existence albeit in another form) he could never have returned to life (since he was never "really dead").

To illustrate: Can you say your adult child "came back home" if he never really left. If your child moved from one room in the house to another room and ceased contact with you he still hasn't "left home" so he cannot come back. I a similar way someone that doesn't die cannot by definition be resurrected.

I know it is a popular idea that "death" in the sense of non-existence does not actually exist, that noone "really" dies but have immoral parts of them that continue life uninterupted, but it is not a biblical one.

JW

Gauleiter88 · Post by **Gauleiter88** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:32 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Gauleiter88 wrote: So you are saying that Jesus really died, ceased to exist, and God created him again?
Yes, Jesus really truly died. That is why the bible say God had to resurrection him. To resurrect someone basically means to bring the person back to life (the word literally means a standing (back) up). If Jesus never died (but continued conscious existence albeit in another form) he could never have returned to life (since he was never "really dead").

To illustrate: Can you say your adult child "came back home" if he never really left. If your child moved from one room in the house to another room and ceased contact with you he still hasn't "left home" so he cannot come back. I a similar way someone that doesn't die cannot by definition be resurrected.

I know it is a popular idea that "death" in the sense of non-existence does not actually exist, that noone "really" dies but have immoral parts of them that continue life uninterupted, but it is not a biblical one.

JW

How would you convince friends and family it was really "you" if an exact copy were made of you now and you both stood side by side? What would you do if you caught your copy in bed with your wife? If you killed him, would that be suicide?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:49 am

Gauleiter88 wrote:How would you convince friends and family it was really "you" if an exact copy were made of you now and you both stood side by side? What would you do if you caught your copy in bed with your wife? If you killed him, would that be suicide?

Are you asking, what would happen if god resurrected two of you* instead of the one?

* As I pointed out, a resurrection isn't God making "copy" it is him re-creating whole (real) person.

What would happen if God made two instead of one of you? That does not risk happening since God is a God of love and it would be a sadistic thing to do. God can make another *you* right now but as I said that would be cruel, pointless and sadistic. One can speculate about what that would be like and if that is what, standing as you are at the point in your life where the meaning of life and death is most relavant, you want to do, that is fine, carry on, but all I can say is that is certainly is not what God has said are his intentions as expressed in scripture.

JW

Gauleiter88 · Post by **Gauleiter88** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:49 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Gauleiter88 wrote:How would you convince friends and family it was really "you" if an exact copy were made of you now and you both stood side by side? What would you do if you caught your copy in bed with your wife? If you killed him, would that be suicide?
Are you asking, what would happen if god resurrected two of you* instead of the one?

* As I pointed out, a resurrection isn't God making "copy" it is him re-creating whole (real) person.

What would happen if God made two instead of one of you? That does not risk happening since God is a God of love and it would be a sadistic thing to do. God can make another *you* right now but as I said that would be cruel, pointless and sadistic. One can speculate about what that would be like and if that is what, standing as you are at the point in your life where the meaning of life and death is most relavant, you want to do, that is fine, carry on, but all I can say is that is certainly is not what God has said are his intentions as expressed in scripture.

JW

The problem is that the God of your "scripture" is a primitive tribal chieftain, vain and vindictive. Nothing good, just or loving about him. I think the early Christian Gnostics were right when they rejected him as a false impostor god.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:12 am

Gauleiter88 wrote:The problem is that the God of your "scripture" is a primitive tribal chieftain, vain and vindictive. Nothing good, just or loving about him. I think the early Christian Gnostics were right when they rejected him as a false impostor god.

Then why are you asking about Him? I represent the God of the bible and am happy to answer any questions from that position. This sub-forum is one that focuses on discussion on the biblical God, refering to the accepted canon as authoritive, which is why I have addressed the question from that point of view. I can only respectfully suggest you find some early Gnostics and enquire about what happens at death from them, should you so value their position.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

Gauleiter88 · Post by **Gauleiter88** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:27 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Gauleiter88 wrote:The problem is that the God of your "scripture" is a primitive tribal chieftain, vain and vindictive. Nothing good, just or loving about him. I think the early Christian Gnostics were right when they rejected him as a false impostor god.
Then why are you asking about Him? I represent the God of the bible and am happy to answer any questions from that position. This sub-forum is one that focuses on discussion on the biblical God, refering to the accepted canon as authoritive, which is why I have addressed the question from that point of view. I can only respectfully suggest you find some early Gnostics and enquire about what happens at death from them, should you so value their position.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

Thanks for your information on JW beliefs about the soul. I didn't know that before. Incidentally, the Gnostics believed in reincarnation, and so did some other early Christian groups. The Gnostics believed that a human would be reborn into a new human body on earth until his own "Inner Light" had developed spiritually enough to escape from the material world and rejoin the True God, who was the essence of the universe. The God in the Garden of Eden was a defective impostor.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:41 pm

Gauleiter88 wrote: Thanks for your information on JW beliefs about the soul. I didn't know that before.

You are most welcome. I have provided a link to our website which has further supportive evidence in this regard,

JW

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:04 pm

Gauleiter88 wrote: [Replying to post 21 by onewithhim]

Hello. I am new to the forum and don't know how to use it yet. I am an American male, 85 years old, retired and now living in northern California. I was raised as a Christian, but not very seriously and soon became an agnostic. Now that I am older, I am more open to the idea of some kind of life after death. I have looked at several religions, but found nothing satisfactory. I have many questions. I don't want preaching, just personal answers.

Welcome to the forum, Gauleiter.