Paradise on Earth

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 am

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:15 am

tam wrote:
This is an interesting idea, but unless Joseph was alive after the spirit was given, and he received that spirit, then he was not a Christian.

He could not have been a Christian because he died before Jesus began his ministy. Yes, there will be many millions that will be resurrected to life in paradise including the righteous man Joseph the adopted father of Jesus.

Perhaps you think you can slip in your false defintion of Christian in this mix, but you have been shown in this thread that one does not have to be anointed to be a Christian, one only has to be a follower of Christ.

Feel free to admit the above and we will have no further issue on who will be in the millenium.

JW

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:30 am

tam wrote: Christians - according to the bible standard - were all anointed (baptized) with holy spirit.

That is false. When in English we say "according to a standard" we mean that this is the minimum requireement that must be met. To say that {quote} "Christians - according to the bible standard were all anointed..."{unquote} for English speakers implies that being anointed is a bible standard for all Christians. That is not true.

We can say that it seems that all first century Christians were anointed accordjng to the bible narrative. But to extrapolate that to saying that one cannot be called a Christian unnless one is anointed, ie there is no such thing as "an unanointed Christian", is to go beyond what the word means and ignore (or, as in your case misinterpret) the words of Jesus.

Feel free to clarify if you are not claiming there can be no such thing as an unanointed Christian

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:38 am

tam wrote:
The points in this particular conversation are going to hinge upon what it means to be Christian. I'm not sure I have anything to add that has not already been said in response to JW.

Yes you redefine the greek word "Christian" in opposition to what the inspired writers wrote and claim one has to be anointed to be a Christian despite the fact that there is no scriptrure that says this.

We stick to the bible and say a Christian is a follower /slave of Christ and by definition any unanointed baptised disciples alive today can be considered by Jesus as Christian.

JW

tam · Post by **tam** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:04 pm

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 1345 by onewithhim]

Indeed, John was speaking to anointed Christians. That was the focus of Jesus and his disciples---to gather the people who would rule with him.

Yes, to gather His Bride, His Body (all those who belong to Him and who will reign with Him).

That focus and that message and that call has not changed.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

tam · Post by **tam** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:15 pm

Peace again to you,

JehovahsWitness wrote:
tam wrote:
Okay, but you do believe that non-Christians will be on the earth during the millennial reign.
No nobody that doesnt accept Christ and submit to his reign will be allowed to live on during the millenium. So no we do not believe that non-Christians will be on the earth during the millennial reign
As said earlier, this is coming down to understanding what a Christian is, but I do not think that was the point of the discussion between myself and owh, from which arose the question of there being subjects in the Kingdom.

We are in agreement that the people invited into the Kingdom will accept Christ as King and submit to His reign. In fact, these are people from the nations who have shown that they have the law (of love) upon their hearts naturally. Being invited into the Kingdom, granted life (and eternal life), how would they be anything except grateful and filled with love?

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

tam · Post by **tam** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:22 pm

Peace to you,

JehovahsWitness wrote:
tam wrote:
This is an interesting idea, but unless Joseph was alive after the spirit was given, and he received that spirit, then he was not a Christian.
He could not have been a Christian because he died before Jesus began his ministy. Yes, there will be many millions that will be resurrected to life in paradise including the righteous man Joseph the adopted father of Jesus.

Perhaps you think you can slip in your false defintion of Christian in this mix
A - it is not false and it contradicts nothing from Christ, from love, from what is written.

B - I am not the one who said Joseph was a Christian, and an example of a non-anointed Christian. There are no examples of non-anointed Christians in what is written and your religion teaches the same. Even of John the Baptist, they say he was a pre-christian witness of Jehovah.

but you have been shown in this thread that one does not have to be anointed to be a Christian, one only has to be a follower of Christ.
I have not been shown this (this cannot be shown, certainly not from what is written); but I have nothing more to add on the subject than has been said in these last many pages.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

tam · Post by **tam** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:56 pm

Peace to you,

JehovahsWitness wrote:
tam wrote:
The points in this particular conversation are going to hinge upon what it means to be Christian. I'm not sure I have anything to add that has not already been said in response to JW.

Yes you redefine the greek word "Christian" in opposition to what the inspired writers wrote
Show me where this is in opposition of what an inspired writer (or any writer in the NT) wrote. Show me where someone wrote the opposite of what I have shared.

and claim one has to be anointed to be a Christian despite the fact that there is no scriptrure that says this.

I suppose I will summarize after all.

1 - all Christians are anointed with holy spirit (that is what makes a Christian) and every example we have is of this.

2 - Paul stated that if one does not have the spirit of Christ, then one does not belong to Christ.

2 - In the definition that you provided from the wiki link (in the etymology of the word Christian), it states that a Chrisitian belongs to Christ. This is true, as I said earlier, but not complete. It does not detail HOW one belongs to Christ (by being a part of Him, of His Body, His Bride - by means of the spirit He has given us, holy spirit.)

3 - The OIL (which was used to anoint kings) is representative of HOLY SPIRIT, which is what anoints a person, making them Christian.

4 - There is no example of a non-anointed Christian, because Christians are given (baptized with, anointed with) holy spirit.

5 - YOU said to me that going beyond what is written is what the Pharisees do. You said that, not me. Tell me what you think I have done that your own religion has not done?

We stick to the bible and say a Christian is a follower /slave of Christ
That was from the wiki definition (true, but not complete). If one is going by what is written, then a Christian is a follower, disciple, slave, of Christ (belonging to Christ, to His Body), and anointed with holy spirit.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:06 pm

tam wrote: Peace to you,

onewithhim wrote:
tam wrote: Peace to you,

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1313 by tam]

I dont need you to tell me to take note of what my own literature says, than you very much.

As I said I am simply asking for a scripture (with the word anointed in it) that stopulates that one cannot be a Christian without being anointed. If you step beyond scripture do not be surprised is you are called up on it.

JW

Well I already responded to this point a ways back. All Christians in the examples from what is written are indeed anointed with holy spirit. There is no example or teaching otherwise. Your own religion teaches that all first century Christians were anointed (and that would be all the examples of Christians that we have in what is written).

Peace again to you.
No, not ALL first century Christians were anointed. Only those that were alive when the anointing of holy spirit came down at Pentecost. Jesus' father Joseph was certainly a Christian, but apparently he wasn't alive when Jesus died & rose again and sent the holy spirit to anoint Christians.

This is an interesting idea, but unless Joseph was alive after the spirit was given, and he received that spirit, then he was not a Christian.

I believe that everyone who believed in Jesus and acted according to his teachings was a Christian. Joseph was definitely a Christian. He was just not an anointed Christian.

.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:12 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
tam wrote:
This is an interesting idea, but unless Joseph was alive after the spirit was given, and he received that spirit, then he was not a Christian.
He could not have been a Christian because he died before Jesus began his ministy.

Might I bring up the point that the Bible doesn't tell us when Joseph died? He might well have lived during Jesus' ministry, right? We only know that he apparently was not alive when Jesus was killed.

.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:21 pm

tam wrote: Peace to you,

[Replying to post 1345 by onewithhim]

Indeed, John was speaking to anointed Christians. That was the focus of Jesus and his disciples---to gather the people who would rule with him.
Yes, to gather His Bride, His Body (all those who belong to Him and who will reign with Him).

That focus and that message and that call has not changed.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

SOMETHING is different from what you teach. Something has had to change, because the 144,000 has, reasonably, been completed. Now there are mostly people with the earthly hope, and will be among those who will be resurrected from ancient times, and live in Paradise forever, on Earth, as the Psalms and Isaiah and others bring out.

You haven't given a coherent answer as to what Psalm 37 means.

"The RIGHTEOUS will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:29)

.