Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[onewithhim]

(1) So you say that the Millennial Reign is not real? That it is somehow symbolic? Symbolic of what?

(2) Just when is the new heaven and new earth to be a reality? Before Jesus comes or after?

(3) Do you say that the earth and the whole universe will be destroyed to be replaced by a totally different planet and universe?

Please answer.

It seems to me at this point that you are considering something symbolic or metaphorical as literal, and something literal as symbolic. Please answer my questions above.

(1) The thousand years refers to a complete time period (10x10x10). This is the age that begins with the binding of Satan and ends just before his release to gather the nations for the last great battle, and the subsequent Judgment of all.

(2) The new heaven and new earth will come after the return of Jesus, not before.

(3) No, it will be a new order of things, not the destruction and replacement of the literal planet or universe.

Then apparently we agree on this. What is your objection? What will be the situation on Earth between the binding of Satan and the last great battle (after he is let loose for the last time)?

My objection?

That what is in the quoted verses is taken out of its own context and intention, and applied as well to the millennium.

Revelation 20 does not describe or hint at Paradise conditions, or of it being "the new heaven and new earth".

Satan and other enemies remain, to be finally dealt with, after, not before or during, the thousand years.

The 1000 years is a last part of the old order of things.

When Revelation 20 finishes, that old order will pass away, and then will appear the new order, the restoration as promised, the Paradise of God.

We could say that, to some extent, the thousand years is the final chapter of the old order, since imperfection will exist for a while as we work to overcome it with Jesus' help, but this period of time is like no other for us. Satan will have been abyssed, and this will mean that we don't have to fight him any longer for several centuries. How can this be like the old order?

[Checkpoint]

(1) So you say that the Millennial Reign is not real? That it is somehow symbolic? Symbolic of what?

(2) Just when is the new heaven and new earth to be a reality? Before Jesus comes or after?

(3) Do you say that the earth and the whole universe will be destroyed to be replaced by a totally different planet and universe?

Please answer.

It seems to me at this point that you are considering something symbolic or metaphorical as literal, and something literal as symbolic. Please answer my questions above.

(1) The thousand years refers to a complete time period (10x10x10). This is the age that begins with the binding of Satan and ends just before his release to gather the nations for the last great battle, and the subsequent Judgment of all.

(2) The new heaven and new earth will come after the return of Jesus, not before.

(3) No, it will be a new order of things, not the destruction and replacement of the literal planet or universe.

Then apparently we agree on this. What is your objection? What will be the situation on Earth between the binding of Satan and the last great battle (after he is let loose for the last time)?

My objection?

That what is in the quoted verses is taken out of its own context and intention, and applied as well to the millennium.

Revelation 20 does not describe or hint at Paradise conditions, or of it being "the new heaven and new earth".

Satan and other enemies remain, to be finally dealt with, after, not before or during, the thousand years.

The 1000 years is a last part of the old order of things.

When Revelation 20 finishes, that old order will pass away, and then will appear the new order, the restoration as promised, the Paradise of God.

We could say that, to some extent, the thousand years is the final chapter of the old order, since imperfection will exist for a while as we work to overcome it with Jesus' help, but this period of time is like no other for us. Satan will have been abyssed, and this will mean that we don't have to fight him any longer for several centuries. How can this be like the old order?

(1) So you say that the Millennial Reign is not real? That it is somehow symbolic? Symbolic of what?

(2) Just when is the new heaven and new earth to be a reality? Before Jesus comes or after?

(3) Do you say that the earth and the whole universe will be destroyed to be replaced by a totally different planet and universe?

Please answer.

It seems to me at this point that you are considering something symbolic or metaphorical as literal, and something literal as symbolic. Please answer my questions above.

(1) The thousand years refers to a complete time period (10x10x10). This is the age that begins with the binding of Satan and ends just before his release to gather the nations for the last great battle, and the subsequent Judgment of all.

(2) The new heaven and new earth will come after the return of Jesus, not before.

(3) No, it will be a new order of things, not the destruction and replacement of the literal planet or universe.

Then apparently we agree on this. What is your objection? What will be the situation on Earth between the binding of Satan and the last great battle (after he is let loose for the last time)?

My objection?

That what is in the quoted verses is taken out of its own context and intention, and applied as well to the millennium.

Revelation 20 does not describe or hint at Paradise conditions, or of it being "the new heaven and new earth".

Satan and other enemies remain, to be finally dealt with, after, not before or during, the thousand years.

The 1000 years is a last part of the old order of things.

When Revelation 20 finishes, that old order will pass away, and then will appear the new order, the restoration as promised, the Paradise of God.

We could say that, to some extent, the thousand years is the final chapter of the old order, since imperfection will exist for a while as we work to overcome it with Jesus' help, but this period of time is like no other for us. Satan will have been abyssed, and this will mean that we don't have to fight him any longer for several centuries. How can this be like the old order?

Your description of the effects of Satan having "been abyssed" in no way matches what it actually says, twice.

Satan is bound to prevent him doing one specific thing only. That is this:

Revelation 20:

3 to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle.

That is the only meaning and application that is viable and scriptural.

[JehovahsWitness]

Satan is bound to prevent him doing one specific thing only.

What will Jesus be doing during this period? What will life on earth be like with Satan "bound" and Jesus doing what he'll be doing during the millenium/1000 year period?

REVELATION 20:6 -ESV

but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Will there be hunger while Jesus is ruling for 1000 years? Crime? Wicked people oppressing others? Will women and children be raped during Christs 1000 year rule? Will there be pollution? Corrupt governments? Greedy corporations during Christs 1000 year rule ?

Or are you suggesting Satan is put into an abysse for 1000 years and Chrsts rules for a different thousand years? If the two things happen simultaneously (please say clearly if you believe the two periods do not correspond) then we know there must be some difference in life before the 1000 year rule and life during the 1000 year rule.



JW

[onewithhim]

(1) So you say that the Millennial Reign is not real? That it is somehow symbolic? Symbolic of what?

(2) Just when is the new heaven and new earth to be a reality? Before Jesus comes or after?

(3) Do you say that the earth and the whole universe will be destroyed to be replaced by a totally different planet and universe?

Please answer.

It seems to me at this point that you are considering something symbolic or metaphorical as literal, and something literal as symbolic. Please answer my questions above.

(1) The thousand years refers to a complete time period (10x10x10). This is the age that begins with the binding of Satan and ends just before his release to gather the nations for the last great battle, and the subsequent Judgment of all.

(2) The new heaven and new earth will come after the return of Jesus, not before.

(3) No, it will be a new order of things, not the destruction and replacement of the literal planet or universe.

Then apparently we agree on this. What is your objection? What will be the situation on Earth between the binding of Satan and the last great battle (after he is let loose for the last time)?

My objection?

That what is in the quoted verses is taken out of its own context and intention, and applied as well to the millennium.

Revelation 20 does not describe or hint at Paradise conditions, or of it being "the new heaven and new earth".

Satan and other enemies remain, to be finally dealt with, after, not before or during, the thousand years.

The 1000 years is a last part of the old order of things.

When Revelation 20 finishes, that old order will pass away, and then will appear the new order, the restoration as promised, the Paradise of God.

We could say that, to some extent, the thousand years is the final chapter of the old order, since imperfection will exist for a while as we work to overcome it with Jesus' help, but this period of time is like no other for us. Satan will have been abyssed, and this will mean that we don't have to fight him any longer for several centuries. How can this be like the old order?

(1) So you say that the Millennial Reign is not real? That it is somehow symbolic? Symbolic of what?

(2) Just when is the new heaven and new earth to be a reality? Before Jesus comes or after?

(3) Do you say that the earth and the whole universe will be destroyed to be replaced by a totally different planet and universe?

Please answer.

It seems to me at this point that you are considering something symbolic or metaphorical as literal, and something literal as symbolic. Please answer my questions above.

(1) The thousand years refers to a complete time period (10x10x10). This is the age that begins with the binding of Satan and ends just before his release to gather the nations for the last great battle, and the subsequent Judgment of all.

(2) The new heaven and new earth will come after the return of Jesus, not before.

(3) No, it will be a new order of things, not the destruction and replacement of the literal planet or universe.

Then apparently we agree on this. What is your objection? What will be the situation on Earth between the binding of Satan and the last great battle (after he is let loose for the last time)?

My objection?

That what is in the quoted verses is taken out of its own context and intention, and applied as well to the millennium.

Revelation 20 does not describe or hint at Paradise conditions, or of it being "the new heaven and new earth".

Satan and other enemies remain, to be finally dealt with, after, not before or during, the thousand years.

The 1000 years is a last part of the old order of things.

When Revelation 20 finishes, that old order will pass away, and then will appear the new order, the restoration as promised, the Paradise of God.

We could say that, to some extent, the thousand years is the final chapter of the old order, since imperfection will exist for a while as we work to overcome it with Jesus' help, but this period of time is like no other for us. Satan will have been abyssed, and this will mean that we don't have to fight him any longer for several centuries. How can this be like the old order?

Your description of the effects of Satan having "been abyssed" in no way matches what it actually says, twice.

Satan is bound to prevent him doing one specific thing only. That is this:

Revelation 20:

3 to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle.

That is the only meaning and application that is viable and scriptural.

But I agree. How does this differ from what I and others have been saying?

.

[onewithhim]

And I also asked "how can that binding of Satan for a thousand years be "like the old order"? There are a couple of questions I asked that you didn't answer, that being one of them, and I'm interested to see your answers to JehovahsWitness's questions.

.

[Checkpoint]

Satan is bound to prevent him doing one specific thing only.

What will Jesus be doing during this period? What will life on earth be like with Satan "bound" and Jesus doing what he'll be doing during the millenium/1000 year period?

REVELATION 20:6 -ESV

but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

During the thousand years, Jesus will be doing what you have quoted him doing in that time.

It is the present reality:

Revelation 1:

5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood,
6 who did make us kings and priests to His God and Father—

Will there be hunger while Jesus is ruling for 1000 years? Crime? Wicked people oppressing others? Will women and children be raped during Christs 1000 year rule? Will there be pollution? Corrupt governments? Greedy corporations during Christs 1000 year rule ?

Or are you suggesting Satan is put into an abysse for 1000 years and Chrsts rules for a different thousand years? If the two things happen simultaneously (please say clearly if you believe the two periods do not correspond) then we know there must be some difference in life before the 1000 year rule and life during the 1000 year rule.



JW

Not two periods, but one.

Life during that period is what it is now.

Jesus is ruler of kings and nations, with his royal priesthood, with authority over the enemy, who is a defeated foe but who can still ply his evil until he meets his end at God's appointed time.

[JehovahsWitness]

Life during that period is what it is now.

During the millennium/ 1000 year rule of Christ ....

#1 Will there be corrupt human governments?
#2 Will there be crime and wicked people oppressing the innocent ?
#3 Will there be hunger, war and pollution ?
#4 Will there be death, disease and human suffering?


JW

[Checkpoint]

Life during that period is what it is now.

During the millennium/ 1000 year rule of Christ ....

#1 Will there be corrupt human governments?
#2 Will there be crime and wicked people oppressing the innocent ?
#3 Will there be hunger, war and pollution ?
#4 Will there be death, disease and human suffering?


JW

My answer to all such questions is an obvious "yes:.

Your answer to all such questions is an emphatic "no

[Checkpoint]

Life during that period is what it is now.

During the millennium/ 1000 year rule of Christ ....

#1 Will there be corrupt human governments?
#2 Will there be crime and wicked people oppressing the innocent ?
#3 Will there be hunger, war and pollution ?
#4 Will there be death, disease and human suffering?


JW

My answer to all such questions is an obvious "yes".

Your answer to all such questions is an emphatic "no"!

Why is this so?

Our answers reflect how we read our starting points and henceforth our entire position.

Our start points are Satan and the first resurrection, as found in Revelation 20.


You think Satan is silenced, and the first resurrection occurs after the return of Christ.

I think Satan is free to do his devilish deeds, knowing his time is short, but restrained from bringing the nations together to fight the last great battle, until after the 1000 years.

I thnk the first resurrection is the passing from death to life that occurs for believers in this life.

[JehovahsWitness]

During the millennium/ 1000 year rule of Christ ....

#1 Will there be corrupt human governments?
#2 Will there be crime and wicked people oppressing the innocent ?
#3 Will there be hunger, war and pollution ?
#4 Will there be death, disease and human suffering?


JW

My answer to all such questions is an obvious "yes"

Okay. So where does Christs return fit into the timeline?

Does Christ return and destroy the "goats" judged deserving of everlasting life before during or after the millennium/thousand year rule?

MATTHEW 25: 31-41

When the Son of man+ comes in his glory, and all the angels with him,+ then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep+ on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [...] Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me,+ you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire+ prepared for the Devil and his angels.+