Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[Miles]

.

So God's purpose in creating mankind is to replace the angels who rebelled and left their first estate from those of mankind who qualify and accept the assignment.[

Sorry, but I see no Bible verses supporting the conclusion you've come to here. In fact, what you've said appears to have been concocted from fundamentalist Sunday school stories. And the three verses you did present

II Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Ecclesiastes 2:11
Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labor that I had labored to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

are equally irrelevant. Perhaps next time . . . . . . .


.

[myth-one.com]

1. God created perfect humans and commanded that (through procreation) the planet earth be filled with Adam and Eve' s perfect human offspring

.... God created everything "very good" -- not perfect.

Are you claiming Jehovah can create anything that is less than perfect?

DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice

Who created Adam and Eve? Was it not YHWH whose works are always PERFECT?
JW

You're adding words again.

I'm quoting God, who proclaimed everything which He created in the Garden of Eden to be "very good"!

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

Why do you contradict God by declaring that mankind was created "perfect" in the Garden of Eden?

If mankind was created perfect, then the angels would have to be more that perfect -- because man was created a little lower than the angels:

What is man, that thou art mindful of him?... For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,

How does that work?

[JehovahsWitness]

... God created everything "very good" -- not perfect.

DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice

I'm quoting God, who proclaimed everything which He created in the Garden of Eden to be "very good"!

I know, and am I asking you a legitimate question based on DEUTERONOMY 32 verse 4

Come now let us not pretend Deut 32 verse 4 is not in the bible; any theology that does not harmonize with everything in scripture must be inaccurate so again I ask a question that is reasonable when discussing God's creative actions. My question is as follows: are you suggesting YHWH can do or create anything that is less than perfect?





JW

[myth-one.com]

... God created everything "very good" -- not perfect.

DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice

I'm quoting God, who proclaimed everything which He created in the Garden of Eden to be "very good"!

I know, and am I asking you a legitimate question based on DEUTERONOMY 32 verse 4. My question is as follows: are you suggesting YHWH can do or create anything that is less than perfect?

God can create something which is very good.

If "very good" is less that perfect, then God can indeed create something less than perfect.

Do you believe that He cannot create something that is "very good"?

[JehovahsWitness]

If "very good" is less that perfect, then God can indeed create something less than perfect.

"If" is a supposition. I am looking to see you take a position on this verse. Is this the first time you have come across Dueteronomy 32 verse 4? If so now you have had time to think about it, what is your interpretation of it.

DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice

In your opinion, is DEUTERONOMY saying Gods works are sometimes less than perfect* ? Is that what you think is being said in this verse? Or does it mean that a perfect God can only do /say/create/ make that which is perfect.



*That which is less than perfect is imperfect.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2436]

I see nothing in your reply which shows an ability to be able to move outside the constraints of your interpretation of biblical writ.
As such, it is of no more or less value to me than what the JWs have to say on the matter.

For my part, there must be misinformation re your belief that humans are not 'spirits' until they are 'spirits' and the transformation will only take place at the 2nd-coming event makes no sense to my own experience. I have had OOBEs so there must be options which you have not included.

Perhaps the 'spirit' is activated and becomes the ship of the self, in which one sails...and this can be done before the 2nd coming. That would explain why my own experience finds your interpretation of the matter unaligned.

[myth-one.com]

If "very good" is less that perfect, then God can indeed create something less than perfect.

"If" is a supposition. I am looking to see you take a position on this verse. Is this the first time you have come across Dueteronomy 32 verse 4? If so now you have had time to think about it, what is your interpretation of it.

DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice

In your opinion, is DEUTERONOMY saying Gods works are sometimes less than perfect* ? Is that what you think is being said in this verse? Or does it mean that a perfect God can only do /say/create/ make that which is perfect.

*That which is less than perfect is imperfect.

I believe all the original scriptures were inspired by God and are all true together as a whole.

What I read are translations of the originals, and there may be translation errors sometimes.

I don't think that is the case here.

Here are the two verses in question:

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

God created man in Genesis 1, so man was created "very good".

Both verses are correct and support each other if the perfect way to create mankind was to create them very good.

And that makes sense with the purpose of mankind being to eventually replace the angels who rebelled.

The wages of sin in the physical world is death. You cease to exist forever more.

But the wages of sin in the spiritual world can be infinitely higher. Satan, for example, will be tormented day and night for ever and ever in the lake of fire. This is because he is an immortal spirit and cannot die.

So this explanation of the two verses supports the concept that God is love.

That is, man gets to individually choose to accept or reject everlasting life because he was created lower that the angels in that he is not immortal.

<====================================>

So God made mortal man lower that the angels in that man can die. But in doing so, God made man perfect for the purpose for which man was created. That purpose is to replace the earthly angels who rebelled against God.

Man isn't forced to accept the job, but can choose to accept or reject the job after experiencing a short test period of life and then choosing to extend that life to everlasting spiritual life or accepting everlasting death.

[JehovahsWitness]

Both verses are correct and support each other if the perfect way to create mankind was to create them very good.

DEUTERONOMY isnt speaking specifically about Genesis. It is speaking about Gods "work" whatever it might be. In other words if God does something (does being a synonym of work) .... So are GOD s works (acts)

a) perfect

Or...

b) less than perfect (ie imperfect)

Which would you choose to describe what God does? Here's the scripture

DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice

If someone read this verse do you think they should conclude that when God does things they are perfect or sometimes imperfect (less than perfect)?




JW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

I would have to agree with myth-one.com who has make some very clear points in responding to your claims.

Do JW’s claim that mortality was not part of God’s plan for his children who were placed on this earth?

Kind regards.
RW

Well if you think myth-one has some very clear points, you haven't paid any attention to what I and others have posted.

God's plan was for humans to live FOREVER on this planet. They were created mortal, but could have everlasting life as long as they obeyed him.

[onewithhim]

... God created everything "very good" -- not perfect.

DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice

I'm quoting God, who proclaimed everything which He created in the Garden of Eden to be "very good"!

I know, and am I asking you a legitimate question based on DEUTERONOMY 32 verse 4. My question is as follows: are you suggesting YHWH can do or create anything that is less than perfect?

God can create something which is very good.

If "very good" is less that perfect, then God can indeed create something less than perfect.

Do you believe that He cannot create something that is "very good"?

I can't believe that you are arguing over adjectives, and words that BOTH were written by Moses! I don't think that Moses would have contradicted himself and written two differing descriptions of God's work. "Very good" to Jehovah would have been perfect. He would make nothing that was not perfect. The last of the matter was Deuteronomy 32:4 where Moses stated that Jehovah's works were PERFECT. That is pretty clear, I would say.