When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?
If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.
We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.
Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29
Paradise on Earth
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2491myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:41 pmThey were perfect for the purpose for which they were created.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:17 pmWell, if Adam and Eve were the "work" of God and God's work is perfect (according to'scripture) .... then Adam and Eve must have been perfect; would you not agree?myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:30 am [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2487]
Yes, yes, yes.
Please don't add your words to the bible; I do not appreciate your manmade additions.
myth-one.com wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:52 amPlease quote the Bible as inspired by God. If not, please quote your outside sources when you apply different words to what God actually said.
Does the bible say Gods work is perfect or does it say God's work is perfect "for the purpose for which they were created"?
DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2492God's work is perfect and perfect for the purposes for which it was created.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:55 pm Does the bible say Gods work is perfect or does it say God's work is perfect "for the purpose for which they were created"?
DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2493Is it somehow different saying "YHWHs works are perfect" and "YHWHs works are perfect for the task at hand"?
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2494Fair enough. So Adam and Eve (being Gods work) were perfect. True or False?myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:27 pmGod's work is perfect and perfect for the purposes for which it was created.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:55 pm Does the bible say Gods work is perfect or does it say God's work is perfect "for the purpose for which they were created"?
DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2495My 2¢:JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:43 pmFair enough. So Adam and Eve (being Gods work) were perfect. True or False?myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:27 pmGod's work is perfect and perfect for the purposes for which it was created.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:55 pm Does the bible say Gods work is perfect or does it say God's work is perfect "for the purpose for which they were created"?
DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
If it's false that A&E were perfect (they were not perfect), then god's work was not perfect----considering he's made mistakes in the past this comes as no surprise.
If it's true that A&E were perfect, then eating the apple and bringing original sin and death into the world was what god had intended, and his work would be perfect----Thanks, but no thanks god.
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2496Miles wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:03 pm
My 2¢:
If it's false that A&E were perfect (they were not perfect), then god's work was not perfect----considering he's made mistakes in the past this comes as no surprise.
If it's true that A&E were perfect, then eating the apple and bringing original sin and death into the world was what god had intended, and his work would be perfect ...
.
In this subforum we start with scripture and work everything else out from that basis. Scripture says Gods work is perfect so... it may have been like pulling teeth from a particularly uncooperative rockweiller but we are one step away from agreeing that since scripture says God's work is perfect, God's work is perfect.
If Adam and Eve were Gods work (heaven help us all, I wouldn't be surprised if Myth doesnt double back on himself and duly declare Adam and Eve no work of God) but if I can get written agreement Adam and Eve as a creation of God were in fact His work, then de will have established biblically Adam and Eve were in fact PERFECT.myth-one.com wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:52 am.... God created everything "very good" -- not perfect.
Once that is established, all subsequent interpretations must bow to this basic fondamental fact, not the other way round. In other words we dont say "Ah... but accepting Deut 32:4 poses diffuculties to my interpretation of subsequent events so I hereby choose to ignore that part of the bible" ... it stays and we have to try and understand subseqent events in the light of this unchanging truth.
In short, we dont move on from there with "If... they were perfect" we move on from "Adam and Eve were perfect so, that being the case (established by Deut 32:4), what happened so that they sinned?" (From this question We look at all biblical options without climbing into bed with the first dichotomy that comes along which is, in my opinion, what you did above)
JW
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2497In as few words as possible, why don't you define "perfect".JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:43 pmFair enough. So Adam and Eve (being Gods work) were perfect. True or False?myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:27 pmGod's work is perfect and perfect for the purposes for which it was created.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:55 pm Does the bible say Gods work is perfect or does it say God's work is perfect "for the purpose for which they were created"?
DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
Perfect: something completely free from faults or defects?
or
Perfect: something as free as possible from defects.
or
Something else?
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2498Then let's start with scripture that shows god's work was not always perfect. But just as a reminder, perfection does not allow for mistakes----JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:22 pmMiles wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:03 pm
My 2¢:
If it's false that A&E were perfect (they were not perfect), then god's work was not perfect----considering he's made mistakes in the past this comes as no surprise.
If it's true that A&E were perfect, then eating the apple and bringing original sin and death into the world was what god had intended, and his work would be perfect----Thanks, but no thanks god.
.
In this subforum we start with scripture and work everything else out from that basis. Scripture says Gods work is perfect so...
perfection noun
per·fec·tion | \ pər-ˈfek-shən
1 : the quality or state of being perfect: such as
a : freedom from fault or defect :
per·fec·tion | \ pər-ˈfek-shən
1 : the quality or state of being perfect: such as
a : freedom from fault or defect :
And as I've pointed out to you before, in a couple of cases (Genesis 6:6 and 1 Samuel 15:35) god made self-admitted mistakes, which puts him in the category of
.....................................
Only if one presupposes that all god's works are perfect, which I've shown not to be the case. So anything based on the claim that god is perfect is doomed to be logically unsound.If Adam and Eve were Gods work (heaven help us all, I wouldn't be surprised if Myth doesnt double back on himself and duly declare Adam and Eve no work of God) but if I can get written agreement Adam and Eve as a creation of God were in fact His work, then de will have established biblically Adam and Eve were in fact PERFECT.
You can say this all you like, but as I've demonstrated, no interpretation of all scripture can establish god to be perfect, because, in fact, it does just the opposite. He makes mistakes. So like it or not, your God Is Fallible.Therein lies the difference between manmade theology and biblical theology. Accurate interpretation harmonizes all the scriptures in the bible.
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2499myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:35 pm In as few words as possible, why don't you define "perfect".
myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:27 pm God's work is perfect and perfect for the purposes for which it was created.
Now, in as few words as possible can you tell me if Adam and Eve were Gods "work" ?
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Paradise on Earth
Post #2500IS GOD PERFECT ?
2 SAMUEL 22: 31 - Berean Study Bible
As for God, His way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless
DEUTERONOMY 32:4 - ESV
The Rock, his work is perfect for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8