Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[Checkpoint]

Thank you, but you have not actually answered my question.

I asked about Revelation 20 only.

I do believe I have presented my thoughts on Revelation 20.

... the rulers in HEAVEN (mentioned in Revelation 20) will have subjects on EARTH. (Revelation doesnt have to have the expression "an earthly paradise" for [this] to be true).


JW

I would add that Revelation 20 speaks of a first resurrection (which implies there are two types of resurrection. The first being to heavenly kingly life so the second would be a resurrection to another type of life.

It aslo speaks about Satan being released to mislead those living on the earth, so again threre is the notion of rulers living "with Christ" (who sits at the right hand of God, who lives in heaven) and yet at the same time people on earth.

Jesus rule cannot mean anything but paradise for those living under it, so those that obey Jesus and his co-rulers will be in "paradise" on earth both during Satan's on confinement and after his ultimate destruction,






JW

Are there any comments for Jehovah'sWitness concerning the clearly explained point of view above?

Well now onewithhim, I really was intending not to express any, on this occasion.

However, your post has brought me back here, so I will make a comment or two, if briefly, just for you!

Nowhere in Revelation 20 is any reference to it being Paradise, or to it having paradise
conditions as fulsomely described in Revelation 21 and 22.

Rather, what is depicted is similar conditions to what we have in this present age before the Judgment that will take place when Jesus returns to put the last enemy under his feet.

There are no enemies in Paradise, but there are in the millennium; even for a short time afterwards.

These will be dealt with then, before the new heaven and new earth appear, following the final Judgment.

[onewithhim]

Thank you, but you have not actually answered my question.

I asked about Revelation 20 only.

I do believe I have presented my thoughts on Revelation 20.

... the rulers in HEAVEN (mentioned in Revelation 20) will have subjects on EARTH. (Revelation doesnt have to have the expression "an earthly paradise" for [this] to be true).


JW

I would add that Revelation 20 speaks of a first resurrection (which implies there are two types of resurrection. The first being to heavenly kingly life so the second would be a resurrection to another type of life.

It aslo speaks about Satan being released to mislead those living on the earth, so again threre is the notion of rulers living "with Christ" (who sits at the right hand of God, who lives in heaven) and yet at the same time people on earth.

Jesus rule cannot mean anything but paradise for those living under it, so those that obey Jesus and his co-rulers will be in "paradise" on earth both during Satan's on confinement and after his ultimate destruction,






JW

Are there any comments for Jehovah'sWitness concerning the clearly explained point of view above?

Well now onewithhim, I really was intending not to express any, on this occasion.

However, your post has brought me back here, so I will make a comment or two, if briefly, just for you!

Nowhere in Revelation 20 is any reference to it being Paradise, or to it having paradise
conditions as fulsomely described in Revelation 21 and 22.

Rather, what is depicted is similar conditions to what we have in this present age before the Judgment that will take place when Jesus returns to put the last enemy under his feet.

There are no enemies in Paradise, but there are in the millennium; even for a short time afterwards.

These will be dealt with then, before the new heaven and new earth appear, following the final Judgment.

OK, thanks for your response. Now, how does what you said actually clash with what I believe (and other JWs)? Please explain. Revelation 20 speaks of Satan being put out of business for 1,000 years and Christ and his co-rulers ruling for that period. I think JehovahsWitness referred to the idea that of course Jesus would rule over a relieved and healthy Earth for all that time. What makes you feel that he would not? Would he allow wickedness and pollution to prevail during the Millennium?

.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1479 by onewithhim]

Checkpoint wrote:

Nowhere in Revelation 20 is any reference to it being Paradise, or to it having paradise
conditions as fulsomely described in Revelation 21 and 22.

Rather, what is depicted is similar conditions to what we have in this present age before the Judgment that will take place when Jesus returns to put the last enemy under his feet.

There are no enemies in Paradise, but there are in the millennium; even for a short time afterwards.

These will be dealt with then, before the new heaven and new earth appear, following the final Judgment.

onewithhim replied:

OK, thanks for your response. Now, how does what you said actually clash with what I believe (and other JWs)? Please explain.

Revelation 20 speaks of Satan being put out of business for 1,000 years and Christ and his co-rulers ruling for that period.

I think JehovahsWitness referred to the idea that of course Jesus would rule over a relieved and healthy Earth for all that time. What makes you feel that he would not? Would he allow wickedness and pollution to prevail during the Millennium?

I like your short explanation of the JW position. It is quite clear to me now; thanks.

In this you mention two things, "Satan being put out of business"...and... "Christ and his co-rulers ruling".

Satan out of business? Yes, but only in the area specified: "to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore".

Deceiving the nations about what? About the good news that the kingdom of God is near to anyone who calls on the name of the Lord, thereby entering the heavenly realm, the kingdom of God.

You see, the battle between God and the devil, between the dominion of darkness and the kingdom of light, has already been won, by Jesus.

Satan has been cast out of heaven, Revelation 12:7-12; Luke 10:17-19.

The gospel is from heaven and is about heavenly things. Satan is bound, Mark 3:23-27.

So Jesus has been given all power in heaven and on earth, so he is able both to issue and to ensure fulfillment of this command, in Matthew 28:

18 "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations"

Jesus has been reigning in this wa1 Petery for 2000 years, and we followers have always been a royal priesthood with him. 1 Peter 2:9.

Bye.

[JehovahsWitness]

In this you mention two things, "Satan being put out of business"...Satan out of business? Yes, but only in the area specified: "to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore".

Deceiving the nations about what? .

About anything. (He wouldn't be able to deceive anyone about "the good news that the kingdom" even if he wanted to because the millennium (1000 year) rule *IS* the fulfillment of the good news, we will be living the good news). Anyway, he will be bound in chains and thrown into an abyss symbolizing complete inactivity during the 1000 year rule. For more on the symbolism mentioned in Revelation see my earlier post REV 20: 1-3 What will happen to SATAN during the 1000 year rule of Christ? http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 325#905325

REVELATION 20:2, 3

"and bound him for 1,000 years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended"

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

DO REVELATION 20 AND REVELATION 12 REFER TO THE SAME EVENT?

Satan has been cast out of heaven, Revelation 12:7-12; Luke 10:17-19.

No, Revelation 12 ( and Luke 10) is not referring to the "FINAL" conflict between the forces of good and evil at the war of Armageddon but to the time when Satan was cast out of heaven in 1914.

We notice that after his defeat in Revelation 12 the earth is to suffer "woe" and Satan himself is free to continue to persecute Christs followers as represented by "the woman". But after his defeat in Revelation 20 he has no such freedom, in fact the wording indicates total restriction from any activity at all (for more details on this point see the link in post post # 1481 above) . Revelation 12 is spoken of as a battle that cleared the heavens but is not spoken of as bringing any relief to the EARTH quite the contrary . Revelation 20 is the final WAR to rid the earth entirely of Satan and his demons. Supporting this conclusion we note in Revelation 12, following his debasement, the bible says he is aware that he has "a short period of time" (We call this period when Satan has been restricted to the vicinity of the earth "The last days"). Evidently then after being cast out of heaven Satan had a period of relative freedom but that there will be a SECOND assault that will bring that relative freedom to an complete end.

CONCLUSION Two seperate wars one in heaven and the second (after a "short period of time" ) in the vicinity of the earth. The first leaving Satan the freedom to continue to manipulate "the nations" the second removing entirely his freedom to do any such thing. The first heralding a period of terrible "woes" or distressing global conditions on earth that we are still experiencing to this very day, the second associated with 1000 years of peace under the Messianic rule were sickness, suffering amd even death will be eliminated.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to

THE LAST DAYS , MESSIANIC PROPHECY and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1480 by Checkpoint]

Bye.

Thou protesteth too much, as the Bard would say. I can't see clearly why you discard the view of Paradise on Earth when the Scriptures clearly refer to such a thing. I won't ask again for you to explain why you don't accept that. We've gone around and around about it, and there's no use in beating a horse that seems to be quite dead at this point.


.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1481 by JehovahsWitness]

the millennium (1000 year) rule *IS* the fulfillment of the good news, we will be living the good news).

Not at all.

The good news of the kingdom was proclaimed by Jesus 2000 years ago when he began to reign in the midst of his enemies, Psalm 110:1-2.

His followers have been living in the light of that good news ever since, as royal priests.

The fulfilment of the good news is not the millennium, as it comes after the millennium, when the last enemy, death, is destroyed.

See 1 Corinthians 15: 24-26; Revelation 20:7,11-14; 21:1-7.

[onewithhim]

Christ began "to rule in the midst of his enemies" in 1914 when he fulfilled the prophecy tied up in the story of the big tree in Daniel chapter 2. That foretold when Jehovah's King would begin his rule. The part of his rule where he eliminates for a millennium the Devil's works starts just after Armageddon. The Millennial Rule does indeed become part of the Good News that we are preaching today. All the promises that we find in the Scriptures will be exercised during the thousand years. Satan's subsequent release from the abyss will not harm those that stick with Jehovah and Jesus. It will be the final test of who are willing to submit to Jehovah's sovereignty and who are not willing, and those that refuse will simply be gone forever. The fulfillment of the Good News will continue on, after the Millennium.


Let him who has ears to hear, listen. The Great Tribulation is not far off.


.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1485 by onewithhim]

Christ began "to rule in the midst of his enemies" in 1914 when he fulfilled the prophecy tied up in the story of the big tree in Daniel chapter 2.

1914 is a historical date, not a biblical prophecy date, which Jesus said is not for us to know.

You know that, but use it anyway.

This not only contradicts Jesus, but also contradicts the JW affirmation that they have learned their lesson and have forsaken all date-setting.

Thus, because you have not forsaken 1914, every time you use it you lose almost all credibility.

Yes, onewithhim, it is me, the one and only Checkpoint, who writes this post, as he does all other Checkpoint ones, whatever their content or purpose or flavor.

Take courage and look up, for God cares much for you, every day.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1485 by onewithhim]

Christ began "to rule in the midst of his enemies" in 1914 when he fulfilled the prophecy tied up in the story of the big tree in Daniel chapter 2.

1914 is a historical date, not a biblical prophecy date, which Jesus said is not for us to know.

Christ said nobody could know in advance the day and hour of the end of the world system of things, he didn't say that nobody would know any biblical dates relating anything at all. There are a number of "time prophecies" in the bible where God indicates in advance when events of spiritual significance would occur and the "seven times" of Daniel chapter 4 is one of them. (Other time prophecies that enabled the faithful to know in advance when prophecies would be fulfilled are the release of the Jewish captives from Babylonian captivity (607 BCE) and the appearance of the Messiaah (29 CE)).

NOTE Almost all Christians believe they can pinpoint the year of Christs becoming king invisibly in heaven. They usually claim this event happeened around the year 33 CE after he was raised from the dead. Jehovahs Witnesses simply believe this same event all Christians believe happened, took place 2000 years later in 1914.

How can we know when and how such prophecies have been fulfilled? The correct understanding of most biblical prophecies is usually revealed during or just prior to their fulfillment. When the event is past, with hindsight, its possible to to be sure of when and the exact nature of their fulfillment (for example Jesus prophecies in advance about the end of the Jewish system of things, we can now with hindsight confirm the fulfillment occurred in 70 CE).

Jehovah's Witneses seek "credibility" from nobody but Almighty God, if people are unsatisfied with our teachings they have but to not become one of us.






JW



RELATED POSTS

What are "the last days"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 24#p891124

Did Jehovah's Witnesses come up with the date of 1914 before or after that year?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 8913898913

Is it true Jehovah's Witesses accurately predicted WWI 35 years in advance?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 13#p898913

Did Jesus indicate Christians should not seek to interpret any time prophecies?
viewtopic.php?p=1010233#p1010233

FURTHER READING:

Are We Living in the Last Days?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/

1914: A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/