Paradise on Earth

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onewithhim
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Paradise on Earth

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1831

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:49 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:26 am
1.
So was the tree of knowledge of good and evil a good or evil tree?

Life that's incapable of possessing morals, such as mushrooms, hedge hogs, and trees for instance, are also incapable of being good or evil. Like rocks, they are amoral entities.
So who in your'opinon was the tree called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil"?

JW
"tweren't no "who," but a "what." And as for the "what" I believe it was a baobab tree, Adansonia digitata,


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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1832

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:26 am
1.
So was the tree of knowledge of good and evil a good or evil tree?

Life that's incapable of possessing morals, such as mushrooms, hedge hogs, and trees for instance, are also incapable of being good or evil. Like rocks, they are amoral entities.

Excuse me TYPO...I meant To write WHY.


My question should have read: So WHY in your opinion, was the tree called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil"?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1833

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:15 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:26 am
1.
So was the tree of knowledge of good and evil a good or evil tree?

Life that's incapable of possessing morals, such as mushrooms, hedge hogs, and trees for instance, are also incapable of being good or evil. Like rocks, they are amoral entities.

Excuse me TYPO...I meant To write WHY.


My question should have read: So WHY in your opinion, was the tree called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil"?
To give the illusion to A&E that they freely chose to go against god's wishes, which made it appear that god had good reason to saddle them and all mankind to come with original sin. But as we've come to realize, being omniscient, god knew they would take the apple before they were even put on earth. It was all a fait accompli. God knew that the world he was about to make would to be populated by beings that would go against his wishes (sin) which he decided would suffer the dire consequences of his hell. The whole make a universe-------------------to-----------------------end up in hell was all planned, AND foreseen probably before he made the universe itself.


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Last edited by Miles on Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1834

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:49 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:15 pm


My question should have read: So WHY in your opinion, was the tree called "the tree of knowledge of good and evil"?
To give the illusion to A&E that they freely chose to go against god's wishes, ...

Thank you. I just wondered, since you at least seemed capable of understanding that a tree cannot of itself be good or evil. Evidently you grasp the notion of the tree representing a choice between obeying God or going against God's wished. One of the two choices would be classified as good, the other as evil.



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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1835

Post by onewithhim »

I don't know why God would have created a tree to fool A&E. That doesn't even make sense. As JehovahsWitness tried to explain, the tree was there so that A&E could choose to obey or disobey, and their touching the tree would show that they chose to disobey and gain their total independence. If they left it alone, it was a shining chance to continually show God that they respected Him and loved Him.

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1836

Post by onewithhim »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:23 pm I don't know why God would have created a tree to fool A&E. That doesn't even make sense. As JehovahsWitness tried to explain, the tree was there so that A&E could choose to obey or disobey, and their touching the tree would show that they chose to disobey and gain their total independence. If they left it alone, it was a shining chance to continually show God that they respected Him and loved Him.
Very interesting subject. Will anyone explain otherwise to me?

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1837

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:19 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:23 pm I don't know why God would have created a tree to fool A&E. That doesn't even make sense. As JehovahsWitness tried to explain, the tree was there so that A&E could choose to obey or disobey, and their touching the tree would show that they chose to disobey and gain their total independence. If they left it alone, it was a shining chance to continually show God that they respected Him and loved Him.
Very interesting subject. Will anyone explain otherwise to me?
First of all, they could touch the tree without any harm being done:

And the Lord God commanded the man saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2:16-17)

God did not suggest or recommend that man not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He commanded it! Since man was not created with the knowledge of good and evil he could not sin until God gave him this first commandment.

What exactly is sin? Sin is the transgression of the commandments of God which are also called the law:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

So sin is transgression of the law. But what if there is no law? Then there is no sin:

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

That is, sinful acts could be committed before the laws were given and understood. However, committing the act does not constitute a sin until by God's law we recognize the act as a sin. Originally, man did not know good from evil as he had no law. At this point, man has one, and only one, law or commandment: do not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil!

Man was now set up to commit one, and only one sin. It was the only commandment he knew, and thus the only one he could violate. Satan saw to it that man did indeed violate this first commandment that God gave him.

================================================

This was done as a learning experience for Adam and Eve not to fool them.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and placed a host of angels on the earth as earthly caretakers. But some of these spiritual caretakers, led by Satan, rebelled against God's authority. As a result the earth came to be without form, void, and dark.

At this point God intervened and went to Plan B. Beginning in Genesis 1:3, He re-created the earth and made mortal mankind a little lower than the angels to be trained as replacement caretakers for those who rebelled.

The original angels assigned to the earth were obviously not respecters of God at the time of their rebellion. These lower beings (mankind) must respect and believe in the Son of God as a prerequisite to becoming a spiritual being which lives forever.

Man is in training to learn that the best way to rule the earth is under the rules of God. Meanwhile, Jesus has gone to prepare a new place for humans who accept Him. When He returns to save man from decimating the earth as the original caretakers did, He will bring the new place He has prepared with Him. The Genesis recreation required six days, after which God rested on the seventh day. The age of man's dominion over the earth will follow this same pattern, but in God days where a thousand years is like one of our days.

====================================================

The tree of knowledge was the first learning experience for Adam and Eve. They were given one commandment from God, and informed as to the consequences of eating the fruit of that tree.

They learned that God spoke the truth, and it would be wise to obey His commandments in the future.

=================================================

Notice that man was not ejected from the garden because he sinned. He was ejected to separate him from the Tree of Life, lest he eat of it and live forever!

Upon Jesus' return, those who believed in Him will once again be allowed access to the Tree of Life and immortality. They will then become keepers of the earth under Jesus' rule. Those of mankind who are not born again as spirits will be cast into the lake of fire and their resurrected physical bodies will be killed a second time. This second death is permanent. There is no way to return from the second death, it is eternal. That is the end of them. There is no Plan "C".

===============================================

Is the process of teaching mankind through the school of hard knocks working? Possibly the second most brilliant man to ever live reached the following conclusion upon reviewing his life on earth:

Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labor that I had labored to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 2:11)

That man was Solomon. Solomon was asked by God in a dream what God should give him. Solomon requested wisdom and knowledge:

In that night did God appear unto Solomon, and said unto him, Ask what I shall give thee. (II Chronicles 1:7)

Give me now wisdom and knowledge... (II Chronicles 1:10)


One of the world's wisest men after a lifetime of seeking treasure, women, and whatever appeared to bring him pleasure; reached this final conclusion of the whole matter of life:

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)

Is this the lesson we are here to learn in our short lifetime, that we should fear God and keep His commandments? Yes! We learn this lesson by trying our way and failing. The answers about the best way to live are sealed in the scriptures. We learn them through trial and error and hard knocks if at all.

Under man's rule and rebellion against God, the earth will once again reach a state of great tribulation as described in Genesis 1:2.

That is when Jesus will return for the elect's sake.


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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1838

Post by Revelations won »

Dear JW,

In Genesis 2 the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden.

Genesis 2:
8
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9
And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The Lord God was the first to name the tree “the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


According to scripture Adam was alone in the garden of Eden.


9
And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The Lord God was the first to name the tree “the tree of knowledge of good and evil”. In verse 17 the Lord God names the tree the second time.

Eve was not present at that time.

For what purpose didi God plant this tree?

Should Adam have partaken of the fruit of this tree?

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1839

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Revelations won wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:23 pm
For what purpose did God plant this tree?
The bible doesnt say specifically, we can only deduce God's purpose from an examination of various scriptures in the canon.


To learn more please go to other posts related to...

FREE WILL, THE TREE OF KNOWEDGE and ... THE ORIGINAL SIN
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #1840

Post by Revelations won »

Dear JW

Thank you for your response to my question.

I asked for what purpose did God plant this tree (meaning the tree of knowledge of good and evil).

Your response was:
"The bible doesnt say specifically, we can only deduce God's purpose from an examination of various scriptures in the canon."

My response: It would appear to me that the Bible is VERY CLEAR what God's purpose was in planting this tree. The God given gift of agency to mankind would be useless unless it were exercised. The clear purpose of the tree was to empower Adam and all his posterity to receive knowledge to discern good from evil or right from wrong. Thus man was then enabled to become agents of choice and have their eyes opened and have knowledge to discern right from wrong.

You should remember that before they partook of the fruit, their eyes were not yet opened to this understanding. Wow! Just think about it, we as his descendants have this discernment to make choices. None of us can escape this reality. Isn't it wonderful to know that if we make mistakes, that through the atonement of Jesus Christ, we may repent and receive every blessing that God has promised us through faith and obedience to God,s commandments! 8-)

Adam's choice simply initiated this mortal probationary period whereby each of us is given the ultimate gift and power of agency to "chose this day whom we will follow" (each and every day)!

There is not a single spirit son or daughter of God that is denied the power to partake of the tree of life. The only begotten Son of God in the flesh was also required to face all that we are faced with in mortality and learned obedience by the things which he suffered, and being made perfect became the author of our salvation. Are we better than he???

Kind regards,
RW

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