Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[onewithhim]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1899]

I said nothing about the unrighteous and I think you're not getting what I am saying. You asked who would these Christians rule over during the thousand years (if all Christians are the Bride). The answer is - those who were non-Christian, who are living on the earth during the thousand years.


Peace again.

Will these non-Christians be taught about the Truth so they can accept it or reject it?

This is a bit of a tangent, but I do not see how anyone who rejects Christ (the Truth) would be granted eternal life from the person they reject.

The point is that there are indeed people on the earth during the thousand years, yes? So again, that answers the question about who Christians might 'reign over' during the thousand years. (Not meaning 'lording things over people' as the rulers of this world do, but reigning as kings and priests with Christ in His Kingdom).


Peace again to you.

I think it's true....neither of us are getting what the other is saying. This is what I believe, and please tell me exactly where you disagree:

Armageddon comes, and many who are not Christians go on into the newly refreshed Earth (Paradise) because of mental problems OR they hadn't had the chance to learn the truth in the old system. A global teaching campaign is instituted so that all those non-Christians can learn the truth. This is all guided by the 144,000 in heaven who are ruling with Jesus. So we have 144,000 ruling in heaven over billions on the earth, many of whom had never learned the truth. The results of the teaching campaign yield many who accept it and decide to worship Jehovah by means of His Son's sacrifice. There are others who will decide to revolt with Satan at the end of the Millennium and are thus destroyed with him. How is that so far?

[tam]

Peace to you owh,

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1899]

I said nothing about the unrighteous and I think you're not getting what I am saying. You asked who would these Christians rule over during the thousand years (if all Christians are the Bride). The answer is - those who were non-Christian, who are living on the earth during the thousand years.


Peace again.

Will these non-Christians be taught about the Truth so they can accept it or reject it?

This is a bit of a tangent, but I do not see how anyone who rejects Christ (the Truth) would be granted eternal life from the person they reject.

The point is that there are indeed people on the earth during the thousand years, yes? So again, that answers the question about who Christians might 'reign over' during the thousand years. (Not meaning 'lording things over people' as the rulers of this world do, but reigning as kings and priests with Christ in His Kingdom).


Peace again to you.

I think it's true....neither of us are getting what the other is saying.

I'm pretty sure I get what you're saying, owh. You suggested to Checkpoint that the Bride cannot be made up of all Christians, because if that were true, who then would the Bride 'rule' over on the earth (since the Bride reigns as king-priests with Christ in His Kingdom, for a thousand years). So the implication is that some Christians must be the Bride (reigning with Christ) while most Christians must be the subjects of the Kingdom.

But we both acknowledge that there will be many non-Christians on the earth during the thousand years. Therefore, even with what you believe, all Christians COULD be the Bride (reigning with Christ as king-priests for the thousand years), and still there would be many subjects of the Kingdom alive on the earth during the thousand years. That was my point.



The rest of your post is a bit beside that point (but I will try to address it in another post.)


Peace again to you, and to your household!

[JehovahsWitness]

...You asked who would these Christians rule over during the thousand years (if all Christians are the Bride). The answer is - those who were non-Christian, who are living on the earth during the thousand years.

You say this y et acknowledge that some in the great Crowd of tribulation survivors are also Christians.

The great crowd is wearing white robes (washed clean in the blood of the lamb); they are carrying out sacred service in the Temple...., so yes, these ones ARE Christian.

REVELATION 7:14b

These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Matthew 24:21-22

... for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

[tam]

Peace to you,

...You asked who would these Christians rule over during the thousand years (if all Christians are the Bride). The answer is - those who were non-Christian, who are living on the earth during the thousand years.

You say this y et acknowledge that some in the great Crowd of tribulation survivors are also Christians.

The great crowd is wearing white robes (washed clean in the blood of the lamb); they are carrying out sacred service in the Temple...., so yes, these ones ARE Christian.

Yes (well, all of that great crowd are Christian). Note that their robes are washed clean in the blood of the lamb and they are carrying out sacred service in the Temple (something priests do).

That does not mean that there are not people alive on the earth during the thousand years (which occurs after the tribulation) who were non-Christian.

REVELATION 7:14b

These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Matthew 24:21-22

... for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

Evidently the people Jesus indicates would both be alive on earth to experience(go into) the great tribulation and "come out" alive where Christians.

Yes. I'm not sure what you are seeing as the problem here?


Peace again to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes. I'm not sure what you are seeing as the problem here?

The great crowd ...ARE Christian.

Bible truths are never problematic for those that love truth. You however contend that all Christians must be in the bride class. However ...

The great crowd that experience (go into) the great tribulation and "come out" alive, cannot not be part of Christ s bride.

Christ's bride* (spirit anointed, born again christians) will be with Him in heaven to judge everyone on earth (see Mat 19:28). Some of them may have have "gone in" to the tribulation, but they do not "come out" as tribulation survivors since Jesus says they will be gathered to him in heaven when he returns in kingdom power before the final judgement (see Mat 24:30, 31).

*The bride corresponds to Christs "brothers" in the parable of the sheep and the goats.

People of the nations who are alive on the earth at the time Christ returns, yes... except for those who are His brothers (Christians who have been caught up to meet Him in the sky upon His return, and then changed, in a twinkling).

The "great crowd" are Chrsitians that expereience and survive the tribulation. The bride does not expereience and survive (go through) the tribulation as they will be in heaven with Christ. Ergo, some (many) Christians cannot be members of the bride class.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1914]

To address what you added to your post:

The great crowd that experience (go into) the great tribulation and "come out" alive, cannot not be part of Christ s bride.

Of course they can.

Christ's bride* (spirit anointed, born again christians) will be with Him in heaven to judge everyone on earth (see Mat 19:28).

A Christian is a disciple who is also anointed with holy spirit (called and chosen). But a disciple (one who follows who Christ) is not necessarily a Christian (an anointed one). Not yet at least. The apostles were disciples before they were Christian (anointed with holy spirit).

That being said, Christ returns WITH those Christians who have died... AND... gathers up to Himself those Christians who are yet alive on the earth at that time. His return cuts the tribulation short. So there MUST be members of the Bride on the earth during the tribulation and at its end, because these are the ones who are caught up to Christ upon His return (which cuts the tribulation short).

Compare:

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 1Thess 4:16:17

I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:2


**

You might also note that Christ returns and gathers the nations (who are on the earth) before Him. These people who are on the earth are gathered before Him. He (and His Bride) are on the earth.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right...


“Worthy are You to take the scroll and open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood You purchased for God those from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”



Christ comes down from heaven; the Bride comes down out of heaven; the nations on the earth are gathered before Christ, and the Bride (purchased from every tribe and tongue and people and nation) reign upon the earth as kings and priests.

Some of them may have have "gone in" to the tribulation, but they do "not come" out since Jesus says they will be gathered to him in heaven when he returns in kingdom power (see Mat 24:30, 31).

Of course they came out. If they are not still in it; they are out of it.

*The bride corresponds to Christs "brothers" in the parable of the sheep and the goats.

The Bride would be included in the brothers, yes, but all Christians are the Bride. Hence the sheep (who will be invited into the Kingdom) are non-Christian.

But all Christians are the brothers of Christ, the Bride, the Church, the New Jerusalem, the Body of Christ.

(Though not everyone who claims to be Christian IS Christian.)

A religion falsely teaches that only some Christians are the Bride (such as the leaders of that self-same religion of course), but that most Christians are not the Bride; Church; brothers of Christ. But Christ never taught such a thing. The apostles never taught such a thing. Nor is that taught anywhere in what is written.




May anyone who wishes hear as the Spirit and the Bride say to you, "Come!" And may anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"

(which water is holy spirit, poured out from the Son, given to Him without end by His Father)


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

... all Christians are the brothers of Christ, the Bride, ...

So there MUST be members of the Bride on the earth during the tribulation and at its end, because these are the ones who are caught up to Christ upon His return (which cuts the tribulation short)

If they are not still in it; they are out of it.

Yes but how do they get out of it? Is there a difference between "coming out" of the tribulation and being "caught up"?

Is there a difference in outcome for ...

(a) "the flesh" (people) that survive
(b) the crowd that "comes out" and
(c) the bride that's "caught up"?

JW




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[onewithhim]

... all Christians are the brothers of Christ, the Bride, ...

So there MUST be members of the Bride on the earth during the tribulation and at its end, because these are the ones who are caught up to Christ upon His return (which cuts the tribulation short)

If they are not still in it; they are out of it.

Yes but how do they get out of it? Is there a difference between "coming out" of the tribulation and being "caught up"?

Is there a difference in outcome for ...

(a) "the flesh" (people) that survive
(b) the crowd that "comes out" and
(c) the bride that's "caught up"?

JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , THE 144, 000 and ... THE GREAT CROWD

Yes....to "come out" of something, the person(s) would first have to be in it.

[tam]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1918]

I'm not sure why a person would think that you cannot come 'out' of something just because the direction you took to come out was vertical instead of horizontal.


Peace to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1918]

I'm not sure why a person would think that you cannot come 'out' of something just because the direction you took to come out was vertical instead of horizontal.


Peace to you.

You didn't answer the question ...

Is there a difference in outcome for ...

(a) "the flesh" (people) that survive
(b) the crowd that "comes out" and
(c) the bride that's "caught up" to heaven?

If so, what is that difference? NOTE The bible never says that the crowd are "caught up", only that they "come out" Neither does it say that the bride "comes out" only that it is "caught up" .


JW