JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[JehovahsWitness]

- Is being "legalistic" good or bad?

Being legalistic is detrimental. Jesus blasted the Pharisees for being legalistic.

So are you not implying Jehovah's Witneesses as being something that is "detrimental"? Are you implying Jehovah's Witnesses are like the Pharisees that were condemned by Jesus, the type of "christians" Jesus would have 'blasted'? Please note, I am not contesting your right to do this but wouldn't you be doing what you seems to be condemning Jehovah's Witnesses for doing vis a vis other religions eg. RCC: pointing out what you believe to be unscriptural practices and beliefs for further discussion?

And for a better fit in this forum, and to back off from making this too personal against a group, allow me to rephrase just a bit.

You mention the Jehovah's Witness organization in your header, you mention Jehovah's Witness three time in your opening post, along with factually inaccurate information (the correcton of which has still not been acknowledged), you imply Jehovah's Witnesses are "detrimental" in how they practice Christianity and then you post that you are backing of from "making this too personal against a group" with a sentence which will probably not be read by anyone but myself while the thread will run the OP.

Okay, I acknowlege the adjustment.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... eutrality/

“Jehovah’s Witnesses remain politically neutral for religious reasons, based on what the Bible teaches. We do not lobby, vote for political parties or candidates, run for government office, or participate in any action to change governments. We believe that the Bible gives solid reasons for following this course.�

Is the JW.Org stating JW teachings correctly?

Yes that is exactly right. We indeed keep our religion out of politics, we believe our primary support is to God's kingdom.

[Elijah John]

You mention the Jehovah's Witness organization in your header, you mention Jehovah's Witness three time in your opening post, along with factually inaccurate information (the correcton of which has still not been acknowledged), you imply Jehovah's Witnesses are "detrimental" in how they practice Christianity and then you post that you are backing of from "making this too personal against a group" with a sentence which will probably not be read by anyone but myself while the thread will run the OP.

Okay, I acknowlege the adjustment.

JW

OK, you acknowledge but don't like my adjustment, so be it. You preach JW, provide multitude links to JW.org, so it is fair game to bring your organization to the scrutiny of the light of day.

No I didn't say JW's are "detrimental in how they practice Christianity" in every instance. Only in those examples presented in the OP.

And you are wrong, I HAVE acknowledged my possible misconceptions, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that I asked for clarification.

In so doing, I asked "what WOULD happen to those in the JW organization who ignored those prohibitions?

If they continued to practice those things publicly? (blood transfusions, voting, celebrating birthdays etc)

And how do those prohibitions have anything to do with Christianity? Or Christian freedom?

Seems needlessly legalistic and controling to me, and I would say to most other Christians.

Or are you saying that it is not possible to BE a Christian (or a good Christian) unless one observes all of your group's check-list prohibitions?

[JehovahsWitness]

And you are wrong, I HAVE acknowledged my possible misconceptions, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that I asked for clarification.

And what have you to say about the clarifications provided, notably that you are wrong in listing the above actions as disfellowhipable offences? Are you going to insist that someone can be disfellowshipped for celebrating their birthday?

Are you going to acknowledge nobody would know if you took a blood transfusion or voted unless you told them and that even saying that would not necessarily mean any disciplinary action would be taken unless you chose to begin to represent these actions as part of the Jehovah's Witness body of beliefs?

Was your opening post accurate or inaccurate?


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

You preach JW, provide multitude links to JW.org, so it is fair game to bring your organization to the scrutiny of the light of day.

Preaching is against forum rules, are you now accusing me of violating the rules of this forum? As for "bringing my organization into the scritiny of the light of day" We are already there, so no "bringing" is necessary. There is probably not another more public religion in the world. Our doors are open to the public, out headquarters conduct tours, our website is one of the most visted religious websites on the planet, you can find every article published by us dating back over 100 years and we visit people at their homes to talk about it. So any implication that it our oganization isn't "in the light of day" is absurd.

As for me, nothing would please me better than every post on this website mentioned our organization as long as those posts are not spreading, lies, half-lies and falsehoods (Please note i am not implying that is what YOU have done, I am explaining what would make me personally happy to see). If people (not you personally, as I am confident that is NOT the case for you) but if anyone reading is happy to see Jehovah's Witnesses misrepresented then I'm sure they will disagree with my statement.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

And how do those prohibitions have anything to do with Christianity? Or Christian freedom?

I have already answered that question in this thread once here, perhaps you missed it. Christianity has everything to do with Christ's father God and His word the bible (see indicated post or details). As I said, all of JWs beliefs are based on bible law and principle.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Or are you saying that it is not possible to BE a Christian (or a good Christian) unless one observes all of your group's check-list prohibitions?

Are you saying is not possible to BE a Christian (or a good Christian) unless we don't?

No I didn't say JW's are "detrimental in how they practice Christianity" in every instance. Only in those examples presented in the OP.

Yes well can say that all you like, unfortunately you have yet to prove that biblically to be true but if you think you can use your bible and support that assertion, you have the floor.

Seems needlessly legalistic and controling to me, and I would say to most other Christians.

And I would say who cares? Unless you and these so-called "other christians" are infallible you may be wrong, especially as you by the very nature of this thread, indicate your knowledge is not complete on the matter.

Further, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses our principle concern is pleasing our Creator and living in a way that brings honor and glory to him by conforming to his standards, as presented in scripture. The bible is clear about how God's expects his people to do things and we (Jehovah's Witnesses) simply obey. Label our strict obedience to bible standards any way you like, it is of little concern to us.


JW

[Elijah John]

Or are you saying that it is not possible to BE a Christian (or a good Christian) unless one observes all of your group's check-list prohibitions?

Are you saying is not possible to BE a Christian (or a good Christian) unless we don't?

No I didn't say JW's are "detrimental in how they practice Christianity" in every instance. Only in those examples presented in the OP.

Yes well can say that all you like, unfortunately you have yet to prove that biblically to be true but if you think you can use your bible and support that assertion, you have the floor.

Seems needlessly legalistic and controling to me, and I would say to most other Christians.

And I would say who cares? Unless you and these so-called "other christians" are infallible you may be wrong, especially as you by the very nature of this thread, indicate your knowledge is not complete on the matter.

Further, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses our principle concern is pleasing our Creator and living in a way that brings honor and glory to him by conforming to his standards, as presented in scripture. The bible is clear about how God's expects his people to do things and we (Jehovah's Witnesses) simply obey. Label our strict obedience to bible standards any way you like, it is of little concern to us.


JW

Please demonstrate for us that the prohibitions listed are "His standards". I doubt that any one of them are even included in the 613 Hebrew laws.

I was using the word "preach" in the broader sense of the word, as in "advocate". Not in the technical way that would indicate forum rule violation.

You say the prohibitions are Biblical, I do not see those restrictions in the Bible. Most other Christians do not either.

Your group is adding to the Bible in a very controling way. Something to distinguish your group from the rest of Christianity perhaps?

Isn't your basic theology enough to achieve that end in a world dominated by Trinitarianism?

Why add the unnecessary restrictions?

Do you claim that your organization has a monopoly on the Truth?

Could your group be wrong in any matter, any detail of Scriptural interpretation?

No, I am not saying that it is impossible to be a good Christian if one observes those prohibitions.

But instead of answering my question with a question, let me repeat. Is it possible in your opionion to BE a Christian or a good Christian if one does not observe the prohibitions listed in the OP?

[polonius]

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... nsfusions/

Why don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses accept blood transfusions?

JW posted:

“This is a religious issue rather than a medical one. Both the Old and New Testaments clearly command us to abstain from blood. (Genesis 9:4; Leviticus 17:10; Deuteronomy 12:23; Acts 15:28, 29) Also, God views blood as representing life. (Leviticus 17:14) So we avoid taking blood not only in obedience to God but also out of respect for him as the Giver of life.�

http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness6.htm

"Vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood." 4 (from The Golden Age, 1931-JAN-4, Page 293).


REVERSAL OF JW TEACHING, 1961

"The past prohibition against vaccination were based on the following biblical passages:
Genesis 9:4:
Leviticus 17:10-14:
Genesis 6:1-4:
Leviticus 18:23-24:

1961: The Jehovah's Witnesses took a neutral stand on vaccination; they neither endorsed nor prohibited the practice.

They wrote:
"As to the use of vaccines and other substances that may in some way involve the use of blood in their preparation, it should not be concluded that the Watch Tower Society endorses these and says that the practice is right and proper. However, vaccination is a virtually unavoidable practice in many segments of modern society, and the Christian may find some comfort under the circumstances in the fact that this use is not in actuality a feeding or nourishing process, which was specifically forbidden when God said that man was not to eat blood, but it is a contamination of the human system." 11

OBSERVATION: If the prohibition regarding abstaining from blood is correct, it logically follows, that JW’s cannot eat a rare steak (which contains blood). Is this true?

Checking the JW website, it appears that Elijah John’s post of 10 January is substantially correct. See my related posts.

QUESTION: Aren’t vaccines prepared from animal products? Can JW’s receive these?

[JehovahsWitness]

No, I am not saying that it is impossible to be a good Christian if one observes those prohibitions.

Then what is the issue? We interpret and apply bible principles one way, you don't. If can be good Christians from our position, applying the above prohibitions, what difference does it make? ... what exactly is the problem?

JW