JESUS IS NOT YHWH

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JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #571

Post by onewithhim »

Bobcat wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:43 pm Jesus was the Father portraying the son, God’s servant.
No, Jesus wasn't and isn't his Father. That is WAAAY off base. Did you read the references to the scriptures Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61? He couldn't possibly be his Father, Jehovah. In Psalm 110 Jehovah speaks TO the Messiah (his Son) and in Isaiah 61 Jehovah anoints Jesus and sends him to help mankind. There are two different individuals as can plainly be seen. Can you see this?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #572

Post by Bobcat »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:59 am
Bobcat wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:43 pm Jesus was the Father portraying the son, God’s servant.
No, Jesus wasn't and isn't his Father. That is WAAAY off base. Did you read the references to the scriptures Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61? He couldn't possibly be his Father, Jehovah. In Psalm 110 Jehovah speaks TO the Messiah (his Son) and in Isaiah 61 Jehovah anoints Jesus and sends him to help mankind. There are two different individuals as can plainly be seen. Can you see this?
I have read the entire Bible and know what it says. You misunderstand the verses you speak of and so it shows your not one with Him at all.

JW’S are not one with Yahweh at all.

I know the LORD and I keep His word.

Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #573

Post by onewithhim »

Bobcat wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:14 pm
onewithhim wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:59 am
Bobcat wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:43 pm Jesus was the Father portraying the son, God’s servant.
No, Jesus wasn't and isn't his Father. That is WAAAY off base. Did you read the references to the scriptures Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61? He couldn't possibly be his Father, Jehovah. In Psalm 110 Jehovah speaks TO the Messiah (his Son) and in Isaiah 61 Jehovah anoints Jesus and sends him to help mankind. There are two different individuals as can plainly be seen. Can you see this?
I have read the entire Bible and know what it says. You misunderstand the verses you speak of and so it shows your not one with Him at all.

JW’S are not one with Yahweh at all.

I know the LORD and I keep His word.

Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God.
Then how do you explain those two verses?

.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #574

Post by Bobcat »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:50 pm
Bobcat wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:14 pm
onewithhim wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:59 am
Bobcat wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:43 pm Jesus was the Father portraying the son, God’s servant.
No, Jesus wasn't and isn't his Father. That is WAAAY off base. Did you read the references to the scriptures Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61? He couldn't possibly be his Father, Jehovah. In Psalm 110 Jehovah speaks TO the Messiah (his Son) and in Isaiah 61 Jehovah anoints Jesus and sends him to help mankind. There are two different individuals as can plainly be seen. Can you see this?
I have read the entire Bible and know what it says. You misunderstand the verses you speak of and so it shows your not one with Him at all.

JW’S are not one with Yahweh at all.

I know the LORD and I keep His word.

Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God.
Then how do you explain those two verses?

.
Those are not verses. They are chapters.

In Psalms 110 it does not mention Jesus name but Christians think it is speaking of Him. Not so.

Notice in Isaiah 61 it starts out speaking of a singular person but then changes into they or more than one. That is because the son of man and son of God is more than one. Christians think there is a trinity. Not so. But the Son is many persons as scripture says;

“Israel is my son my firstborn, let my son go so he can serve me.”

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #575

Post by onewithhim »

Bobcat wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:40 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:50 pm
Bobcat wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:14 pm
onewithhim wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:59 am
Bobcat wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:43 pm Jesus was the Father portraying the son, God’s servant.
No, Jesus wasn't and isn't his Father. That is WAAAY off base. Did you read the references to the scriptures Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61? He couldn't possibly be his Father, Jehovah. In Psalm 110 Jehovah speaks TO the Messiah (his Son) and in Isaiah 61 Jehovah anoints Jesus and sends him to help mankind. There are two different individuals as can plainly be seen. Can you see this?
I have read the entire Bible and know what it says. You misunderstand the verses you speak of and so it shows your not one with Him at all.

JW’S are not one with Yahweh at all.

I know the LORD and I keep His word.

Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God.
Then how do you explain those two verses?

.
Those are not verses. They are chapters.

In Psalms 110 it does not mention Jesus name but Christians think it is speaking of Him. Not so.

Notice in Isaiah 61 it starts out speaking of a singular person but then changes into they or more than one. That is because the son of man and son of God is more than one. Christians think there is a trinity. Not so. But the Son is many persons as scripture says;

“Israel is my son my firstborn, let my son go so he can serve me.”
I was speaking about the first few VERSES of Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61.

In Psalm 110, who else could "my Lord" be than Christ? It wouldn't be David because David never literally sat at Jehovah's right hand in heaven. Jesus did, and David was cognizant of the future King that was prophesied from the time of Eden (Genesis 3:15), so he knew about the position of the Messiah long before He came. Neither was David pronounced "a priest according to the order of Melchizedek." (verse 4) Only Jesus Christ, the Messiah. So, yes, "my Lord" of Psalm 110:1 is definitely the Messiah.

I don't see what you're saying about Isaiah 61. It is obviously speaking about Jehovah anointing "me" (or, Jesus, as Jesus claimed at Luke 4:18-21). Young's Literal Translation renders verses 1 and 2 as:

"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, because Jehovah did anoint me to proclaim tidings to the humble, he sent me to bind the broken of heart, to proclaim to captives liberty, and to bound ones an opening of bands. To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, and the day of vengeance of our God." (Isaiah 61:1,2)

In both of those scriptures there are TWO Persons mentioned: Jehovah and His Son, Jesus Christ. You are correct that there is no Trinity. There are only two, and Jesus is always the Son of God.

Where you get Israel being Christ I don't know. Jehovah is speaking about an earthly "son," and Israel was His first faithful nation, according to the relationship He had with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. He referred to Israel as His "servant" in the singular, so that is what is happening in the verse you quoted. To Israel:

"'You are my witnesses,' declares Jehovah, 'yes, my servant (singular) whom I have chosen.'" (Isaiah 43:10)

Let's all brush up on our Biblical knowledge, shall we?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #576

Post by Bobcat »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 2:18 pm
Bobcat wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:40 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:50 pm
Bobcat wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:14 pm
onewithhim wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:59 am
Bobcat wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:43 pm Jesus was the Father portraying the son, God’s servant.
No, Jesus wasn't and isn't his Father. That is WAAAY off base. Did you read the references to the scriptures Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61? He couldn't possibly be his Father, Jehovah. In Psalm 110 Jehovah speaks TO the Messiah (his Son) and in Isaiah 61 Jehovah anoints Jesus and sends him to help mankind. There are two different individuals as can plainly be seen. Can you see this?
I have read the entire Bible and know what it says. You misunderstand the verses you speak of and so it shows your not one with Him at all.

JW’S are not one with Yahweh at all.

I know the LORD and I keep His word.

Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God.
Then how do you explain those two verses?

.
Those are not verses. They are chapters.

In Psalms 110 it does not mention Jesus name but Christians think it is speaking of Him. Not so.

Notice in Isaiah 61 it starts out speaking of a singular person but then changes into they or more than one. That is because the son of man and son of God is more than one. Christians think there is a trinity. Not so. But the Son is many persons as scripture says;

“Israel is my son my firstborn, let my son go so he can serve me.”
I was speaking about the first few VERSES of Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61.

In Psalm 110, who else could "my Lord" be than Christ? It wouldn't be David because David never literally sat at Jehovah's right hand in heaven. Jesus did, and David was cognizant of the future King that was prophesied from the time of Eden (Genesis 3:15), so he knew about the position of the Messiah long before He came. Neither was David pronounced "a priest according to the order of Melchizedek." (verse 4) Only Jesus Christ, the Messiah. So, yes, "my Lord" of Psalm 110:1 is definitely the Messiah.

I don't see what you're saying about Isaiah 61. It is obviously speaking about Jehovah anointing "me" (or, Jesus, as Jesus claimed at Luke 4:18-21). Young's Literal Translation renders verses 1 and 2 as:

"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, because Jehovah did anoint me to proclaim tidings to the humble, he sent me to bind the broken of heart, to proclaim to captives liberty, and to bound ones an opening of bands. To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, and the day of vengeance of our God." (Isaiah 61:1,2)

In both of those scriptures there are TWO Persons mentioned: Jehovah and His Son, Jesus Christ. You are correct that there is no Trinity. There are only two, and Jesus is always the Son of God.

Where you get Israel being Christ I don't know. Jehovah is speaking about an earthly "son," and Israel was His first faithful nation, according to the relationship He had with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. He referred to Israel as His "servant" in the singular, so that is what is happening in the verse you quoted. To Israel:

"'You are my witnesses,' declares Jehovah, 'yes, my servant (singular) whom I have chosen.'" (Isaiah 43:10)

Let's all brush up on our Biblical knowledge, shall we?
Your wrong, period. All the scholars who taught you are wrong, period. Christianity is wrong, period. The son is not Jesus alone. Scripture says the son of man judges but Jesus says those who follow Him shall be seated to judge the tribes of Israel. Why? Because they are son of man, son of God.

In Daniel one like a son of man is given the kingdom forever but the meaning is revealed to Daniel that the kingdom is given to the Saints of Yahweh.

Jesus says the son of man came eating and drinking but scripture defines those who eat and drink as those who serve God so again proving the son of man and son of God are Israel, God’s servants.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #577

Post by onewithhim »

Bobcat wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:25 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 2:18 pm
Bobcat wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:40 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:50 pm
Bobcat wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:14 pm
onewithhim wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:59 am
Bobcat wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:43 pm Jesus was the Father portraying the son, God’s servant.
No, Jesus wasn't and isn't his Father. That is WAAAY off base. Did you read the references to the scriptures Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61? He couldn't possibly be his Father, Jehovah. In Psalm 110 Jehovah speaks TO the Messiah (his Son) and in Isaiah 61 Jehovah anoints Jesus and sends him to help mankind. There are two different individuals as can plainly be seen. Can you see this?
I have read the entire Bible and know what it says. You misunderstand the verses you speak of and so it shows your not one with Him at all.

JW’S are not one with Yahweh at all.

I know the LORD and I keep His word.

Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God.
Then how do you explain those two verses?

.
Those are not verses. They are chapters.

In Psalms 110 it does not mention Jesus name but Christians think it is speaking of Him. Not so.

Notice in Isaiah 61 it starts out speaking of a singular person but then changes into they or more than one. That is because the son of man and son of God is more than one. Christians think there is a trinity. Not so. But the Son is many persons as scripture says;

“Israel is my son my firstborn, let my son go so he can serve me.”
I was speaking about the first few VERSES of Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61.

In Psalm 110, who else could "my Lord" be than Christ? It wouldn't be David because David never literally sat at Jehovah's right hand in heaven. Jesus did, and David was cognizant of the future King that was prophesied from the time of Eden (Genesis 3:15), so he knew about the position of the Messiah long before He came. Neither was David pronounced "a priest according to the order of Melchizedek." (verse 4) Only Jesus Christ, the Messiah. So, yes, "my Lord" of Psalm 110:1 is definitely the Messiah.

I don't see what you're saying about Isaiah 61. It is obviously speaking about Jehovah anointing "me" (or, Jesus, as Jesus claimed at Luke 4:18-21). Young's Literal Translation renders verses 1 and 2 as:

"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, because Jehovah did anoint me to proclaim tidings to the humble, he sent me to bind the broken of heart, to proclaim to captives liberty, and to bound ones an opening of bands. To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, and the day of vengeance of our God." (Isaiah 61:1,2)

In both of those scriptures there are TWO Persons mentioned: Jehovah and His Son, Jesus Christ. You are correct that there is no Trinity. There are only two, and Jesus is always the Son of God.

Where you get Israel being Christ I don't know. Jehovah is speaking about an earthly "son," and Israel was His first faithful nation, according to the relationship He had with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. He referred to Israel as His "servant" in the singular, so that is what is happening in the verse you quoted. To Israel:

"'You are my witnesses,' declares Jehovah, 'yes, my servant (singular) whom I have chosen.'" (Isaiah 43:10)

Let's all brush up on our Biblical knowledge, shall we?
Your wrong, period. All the scholars who taught you are wrong, period. Christianity is wrong, period. The son is not Jesus alone. Scripture says the son of man judges but Jesus says those who follow Him shall be seated to judge the tribes of Israel. Why? Because they are son of man, son of God.

In Daniel one like a son of man is given the kingdom forever but the meaning is revealed to Daniel that the kingdom is given to the Saints of Yahweh.

Jesus says the son of man came eating and drinking but scripture defines those who eat and drink as those who serve God so again proving the son of man and son of God are Israel, God’s servants.
That is the only way you can answer my question? When someone is wrong they start attacking the group that the poster is affiliated with, they don't take the scriptures and explain why they disagree. I asked if you, Bobcat, would take the scriptural references---Psalm 110:1 and Isaiah 61:1---and explain why they do NOT indicate two different individuals, as you insist. But all you have to say is "you're wrong!" :o

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #578

Post by onewithhim »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:36 pm
Bobcat wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:25 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 2:18 pm
Bobcat wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:40 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:50 pm
Bobcat wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:14 pm
onewithhim wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:59 am
Bobcat wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:43 pm Jesus was the Father portraying the son, God’s servant.
No, Jesus wasn't and isn't his Father. That is WAAAY off base. Did you read the references to the scriptures Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61? He couldn't possibly be his Father, Jehovah. In Psalm 110 Jehovah speaks TO the Messiah (his Son) and in Isaiah 61 Jehovah anoints Jesus and sends him to help mankind. There are two different individuals as can plainly be seen. Can you see this?
I have read the entire Bible and know what it says. You misunderstand the verses you speak of and so it shows your not one with Him at all.

JW’S are not one with Yahweh at all.

I know the LORD and I keep His word.

Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God.
Then how do you explain those two verses?

.
Those are not verses. They are chapters.

In Psalms 110 it does not mention Jesus name but Christians think it is speaking of Him. Not so.

Notice in Isaiah 61 it starts out speaking of a singular person but then changes into they or more than one. That is because the son of man and son of God is more than one. Christians think there is a trinity. Not so. But the Son is many persons as scripture says;

“Israel is my son my firstborn, let my son go so he can serve me.”
I was speaking about the first few VERSES of Psalm 110 and Isaiah 61.

In Psalm 110, who else could "my Lord" be than Christ? It wouldn't be David because David never literally sat at Jehovah's right hand in heaven. Jesus did, and David was cognizant of the future King that was prophesied from the time of Eden (Genesis 3:15), so he knew about the position of the Messiah long before He came. Neither was David pronounced "a priest according to the order of Melchizedek." (verse 4) Only Jesus Christ, the Messiah. So, yes, "my Lord" of Psalm 110:1 is definitely the Messiah.

I don't see what you're saying about Isaiah 61. It is obviously speaking about Jehovah anointing "me" (or, Jesus, as Jesus claimed at Luke 4:18-21). Young's Literal Translation renders verses 1 and 2 as:

"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, because Jehovah did anoint me to proclaim tidings to the humble, he sent me to bind the broken of heart, to proclaim to captives liberty, and to bound ones an opening of bands. To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, and the day of vengeance of our God." (Isaiah 61:1,2)

In both of those scriptures there are TWO Persons mentioned: Jehovah and His Son, Jesus Christ. You are correct that there is no Trinity. There are only two, and Jesus is always the Son of God.

Where you get Israel being Christ I don't know. Jehovah is speaking about an earthly "son," and Israel was His first faithful nation, according to the relationship He had with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. He referred to Israel as His "servant" in the singular, so that is what is happening in the verse you quoted. To Israel:

"'You are my witnesses,' declares Jehovah, 'yes, my servant (singular) whom I have chosen.'" (Isaiah 43:10)

Let's all brush up on our Biblical knowledge, shall we?
Your wrong, period. All the scholars who taught you are wrong, period. Christianity is wrong, period. The son is not Jesus alone. Scripture says the son of man judges but Jesus says those who follow Him shall be seated to judge the tribes of Israel. Why? Because they are son of man, son of God.

In Daniel one like a son of man is given the kingdom forever but the meaning is revealed to Daniel that the kingdom is given to the Saints of Yahweh.

Jesus says the son of man came eating and drinking but scripture defines those who eat and drink as those who serve God so again proving the son of man and son of God are Israel, God’s servants.
That is the only way you can answer my question? When someone is wrong they start attacking the group that the poster is affiliated with, they don't take the scriptures and explain why they disagree. I asked if you, Bobcat, would take the scriptural references---Psalm 110:1 and Isaiah 61:1---and explain why they do NOT indicate two different individuals, as you insist. But all you have to say is "you're wrong!" :o

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #579

Post by Candle »

onewithhim wrote: Sat May 06, 2017 3:07 pm Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.
YHVH is a Spirit. Spirits are invisible.

Jesus is not the Spirit of YHVH. He is his image.

YHVH is invisible. If you want to see him, Jesus is what he looks like.

Isaiah 61 - The Spirit of YHVH rests on the image of YHVH.

So, Jesus IS God in that He is his image. Jesus is NOT God in that He is NOT the Spirit.

Here's the critical question: "Why did Jesus stop in the middle of a sentence, and then sit down?"

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #580

Post by onewithhim »

Candle wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:52 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 06, 2017 3:07 pm Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.
YHVH is a Spirit. Spirits are invisible.

Jesus is not the Spirit of YHVH. He is his image.

YHVH is invisible. If you want to see him, Jesus is what he looks like.

Isaiah 61 - The Spirit of YHVH rests on the image of YHVH.

So, Jesus IS God in that He is his image. Jesus is NOT God in that He is NOT the Spirit.

Here's the critical question: "Why did Jesus stop in the middle of a sentence, and then sit down?"
Jesus can't both be God and not be God.

He didn't stop in the middle of a sentence. He quoted Isaiah 61:1,2 and then sat down. After that he said, "Today this scripture that you just heard is fulfilled." (Luke 4:18 and 21) What is your point?

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