JESUS IS NOT YHWH

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onewithhim
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JESUS IS NOT YHWH

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Post by onewithhim »

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #551

Post by Revelations won »

Dear PICJAG, 101G.

You Said:

“Thanks, for the reply, but that's the crust of the matter, the Lord Jesus is the Father the Ordinal First, (SPIRIT), who "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF", MADE ALL THINGS, but in Matthews 19:4 the son said "he" made them male and female. this is where the understanding of "Ordinal First and Last", come in at. the Son was was foreordain to come, (LAST).... listen, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
also as the apostle Peter by the Holy Spirit said, 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"
there was no blood before the foundation of the world, nor at it. so there was no son of God at Genesis 1:1 when "HE", God created ALL THINGS.

PICJAG, 101G.”

My response:

You said”there was no blood before the foundation of the world, nor at it. so there was no son of God at Genesis 1:1 when "HE", God created ALL THINGS.

By what means do you assert that there was no blood before the foundation of the world?

I think it should be well understood that that Christ was the first born spirit Son of God for God is the father of the spirits of all men as the scriptures so testify.

So it is evident that Christ existed as a spirit son of God until the meridian of time.

IT is also evident from the scriptures that Christ had and shared glory with His FATHER in heaven before entering his second estate with a physical body to fulfill his foreordained mission on earth to provide the vital atonement and resurrection as our savior and redeemer.

And, yes I would agree with you that whatever flowed in his spirit body was not blood.

And, yes Christ was indeed the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. In other words, God was the Father of the spirit body of Christ. At a much later time God the Father also created the mortal body of Christ by his association with Mary his mother. in the meridian of time. This mortal birth at that time was associated with blood flowing in Christs veins. So it was only at this mortal conception of Christ that this first born spirit Son of God had received the moral life giving blood in his physical body.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #552

Post by onewithhim »

101G wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:18 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:34 pm [Replying to 101G in post #545]
I wonder if this applies here: "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

I dare say that my explanation makes sense but you still insist that Jesus made everything with his own power. This idea even Jesus disputes.

"Jesus approached them saying: 'All authority has been GIVEN to me in heaven and on the earth.'" (Matthew 28:18)

Who GAVE Jesus his power and authority?


.
Thanks, for the reply, this was after his resurrection, in GLORIFICATION, which he, he, he, laid down his life. and had authority and the power to restore it. understand, Jesus the Son of God is simply the BODY/the Son, on earth in flesh, and Jesus the Son of Man is simply, the HEAD/the Father, Spirit of God in heaven.

ps, it was Jesus himself who raised up his own Body, by his own power, see John 2:18-21.

PICJAG,
101
G.
The scriptures say over and over that GOD (Jehovah/the Father) raised Jesus up. You cling to one verse---hazily understood at best---to say that Jesus brought himself back to life. Why? If someone is truly DEAD, they cannot bring themself back to life. If they do, they were not really dead! If Jesus literally brought himself back to life, he never died, and our hope is dashed. We are now still in our sins.

The meaning of your favored verse is this: Jesus was deemed worthy of a resurrection because of his faithfulness up to the point of death. That is why it can be said that he raised himself up. His pristine life and his love of his Father and the human race caused him to be in a favorable position with Jehovah, and therefore worthy of resurrection. If you don't accept that, you are saying that the Bible contradicts itself.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #553

Post by tigger 2 »

John 2:19-22

When we see “God, having raised up his servant” (Acts 3:26, RSV), we understand God as being one person who raised up someone else (His servant, Jesus). And at Gal. 1:1 we see - “God the Father, who raised [Jesus Christ] from the dead.”

The noted trinitarian NT Greek expert Dr. Alfred Marshall writes:
“our Lord ‘was raised’ as are the dead generally (they do not ‘rise’). See 1 Corinthians ch. 15, etc.” - p. xxxvi, The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English, 1980.

We also see at Eph. 1:17, 19, 20 -
“that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory ..., according to the working of his great might which he accomplished in Christ when he raised him from the dead and made him sit at his right hand [cf. Ps. 110:1, 2; Acts 2:34-36; and Ro. 8:34] in the heavenly places” - RSV.

And 1 Thess. 1:9, 10 -
“how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God [John 17:3] and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus” - RSV. Also see Acts 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Ro. 4:24; 6:4; 8:11; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; Col. 2:12; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:20; 1 Peter 1:21; etc.

Probably the only place you could find where there appears to be a statement that the Son raised himself (in contrast to the many scriptures to the contrary) would be John 2:19-22.

John 2:19, 21, 22 -
“Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’ .... But he spoke of the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised [not ‘he raised himself’] from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this.” - RSV.

Rather than ignoring this scripture, since at first glance it seems to contradict all the many others about Jesus being raised up by the Father alone, we should make every attempt to understand it in agreement with the other scriptures on the subject.

Obviously Jesus was speaking figuratively here, whereas the other scriptures concerning his being raised are to be understood literally. Figurative Bible language often leads to difficulties in interpretation.

However, Jesus was speaking figuratively of his actual body which his enemies really did destroy (“destroy this temple and ...”). Therefore, one understanding might be that Jesus was merely stating that after the Father had already returned Jesus’ life to a body (“raised” him to life), Jesus was then physically able to raise up that living body: He literally was able to raise himself to his feet again; He was able to raise his own body up after the Father had raised him up from death!

Whatever the answer to any possible confusion generated from this single figurative usage at John 2:19, we must not ignore the overwhelming number of literal statements which clearly state that the Father alone actually raised Jesus to life.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #554

Post by onewithhim »

tigger 2 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:10 pm John 2:19-22

When we see “God, having raised up his servant” (Acts 3:26, RSV), we understand God as being one person who raised up someone else (His servant, Jesus). And at Gal. 1:1 we see - “God the Father, who raised [Jesus Christ] from the dead.”

The noted trinitarian NT Greek expert Dr. Alfred Marshall writes:
“our Lord ‘was raised’ as are the dead generally (they do not ‘rise’). See 1 Corinthians ch. 15, etc.” - p. xxxvi, The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English, 1980.

We also see at Eph. 1:17, 19, 20 -
“that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory ..., according to the working of his great might which he accomplished in Christ when he raised him from the dead and made him sit at his right hand [cf. Ps. 110:1, 2; Acts 2:34-36; and Ro. 8:34] in the heavenly places” - RSV.

And 1 Thess. 1:9, 10 -
“how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God [John 17:3] and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus” - RSV. Also see Acts 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Ro. 4:24; 6:4; 8:11; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; Col. 2:12; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:20; 1 Peter 1:21; etc.

Probably the only place you could find where there appears to be a statement that the Son raised himself (in contrast to the many scriptures to the contrary) would be John 2:19-22.

John 2:19, 21, 22 -
“Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’ .... But he spoke of the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised [not ‘he raised himself’] from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this.” - RSV.

Rather than ignoring this scripture, since at first glance it seems to contradict all the many others about Jesus being raised up by the Father alone, we should make every attempt to understand it in agreement with the other scriptures on the subject.

Obviously Jesus was speaking figuratively here, whereas the other scriptures concerning his being raised are to be understood literally. Figurative Bible language often leads to difficulties in interpretation.

However, Jesus was speaking figuratively of his actual body which his enemies really did destroy (“destroy this temple and ...”). Therefore, one understanding might be that Jesus was merely stating that after the Father had already returned Jesus’ life to a body (“raised” him to life), Jesus was then physically able to raise up that living body: He literally was able to raise himself to his feet again; He was able to raise his own body up after the Father had raised him up from death!

Whatever the answer to any possible confusion generated from this single figurative usage at John 2:19, we must not ignore the overwhelming number of literal statements which clearly state that the Father alone actually raised Jesus to life.
Excellent post, tigger. The scriptures must indeed harmonize. As was said above, Jesus was really dead, and if so, he couldn't bring himself back from the dead. This is a good thing to think about, and hopefully folks who read all this will get the premise and use their powers of reason.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #555

Post by onewithhim »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:36 am
tigger 2 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:10 pm John 2:19-22

When we see “God, having raised up his servant” (Acts 3:26, RSV), we understand God as being one person who raised up someone else (His servant, Jesus). And at Gal. 1:1 we see - “God the Father, who raised [Jesus Christ] from the dead.”

The noted trinitarian NT Greek expert Dr. Alfred Marshall writes:
“our Lord ‘was raised’ as are the dead generally (they do not ‘rise’). See 1 Corinthians ch. 15, etc.” - p. xxxvi, The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English, 1980.

We also see at Eph. 1:17, 19, 20 -
“that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory ..., according to the working of his great might which he accomplished in Christ when he raised him from the dead and made him sit at his right hand [cf. Ps. 110:1, 2; Acts 2:34-36; and Ro. 8:34] in the heavenly places” - RSV.

And 1 Thess. 1:9, 10 -
“how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God [John 17:3] and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus” - RSV. Also see Acts 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Ro. 4:24; 6:4; 8:11; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; Col. 2:12; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:20; 1 Peter 1:21; etc.

Probably the only place you could find where there appears to be a statement that the Son raised himself (in contrast to the many scriptures to the contrary) would be John 2:19-22.

John 2:19, 21, 22 -
“Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’ .... But he spoke of the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised [not ‘he raised himself’] from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this.” - RSV.

Rather than ignoring this scripture, since at first glance it seems to contradict all the many others about Jesus being raised up by the Father alone, we should make every attempt to understand it in agreement with the other scriptures on the subject.

Obviously Jesus was speaking figuratively here, whereas the other scriptures concerning his being raised are to be understood literally. Figurative Bible language often leads to difficulties in interpretation.

However, Jesus was speaking figuratively of his actual body which his enemies really did destroy (“destroy this temple and ...”). Therefore, one understanding might be that Jesus was merely stating that after the Father had already returned Jesus’ life to a body (“raised” him to life), Jesus was then physically able to raise up that living body: He literally was able to raise himself to his feet again; He was able to raise his own body up after the Father had raised him up from death!

Whatever the answer to any possible confusion generated from this single figurative usage at John 2:19, we must not ignore the overwhelming number of literal statements which clearly state that the Father alone actually raised Jesus to life.
Excellent post, tigger. The scriptures must indeed harmonize. As was said above, Jesus was really dead, and if so, he couldn't bring himself back from the dead. This is a good thing to think about, and hopefully folks who read all this will get the premise and use their powers of reason.
Yes!

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #556

Post by onewithhim »

Perhaps someone would like to post their thoughts on this subject, after reading the posts that have been written. Is it clear that Jesus is not his Father? I would say so, unless someone can dispute all the verses that show Jesus speaking TO his Father and vice-versa.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

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Post by onewithhim »

Are there any takers?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #558

Post by Difflugia »

onewithhim wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:42 pmAre there any takers?
It's not really that difficult if you're willing to think like an apologist, which I know you can do.

Your explanation is begging the question by building into your New Testament interpretations that Yahweh means only the Father. The Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son, and the Holy Spirit is neither of them. All three, however, are Yahweh, both individually and together.

If Psalm 110 is taken as a messianic prophecy, then, we already have an accepted principle that covers it:
tigger 2 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:10 pmObviously Jesus was speaking figuratively here
For the purposes of this discussion, we can see the Trinity of Yahweh as a family (three persons, one God). In both English and Greek, we can figuratively say something like, "the Jones family said to its oldest son, Mortimer, 'we'll see you at graduation.'" Mortimer might even already know this, so an affirmation wouldn't have to impart new information to him, especially if it's said for the benefit of other people, as a prophecy is. It's also interesting that the translators of the NWT have found places where they feel justified in replacing "the lord" with "Jehovah." I think I've found one that they missed.

You have no "takers" (except me, a glutton for punishment, apparently) because this was explained to you five years ago, right after you started the thread. You have sufficiently explained why you don't think the text should be read that way, which is valid, but you haven't explained why it cannot be read this way. The only argument that I see is that trinitarians must read your proof-texts literally instead of figuratively, while you insist on the latitude to treat theirs figuratively instead of literally. As long as your argument is just a repeated insistence that your double-standard is valid, you'll probably continue to not get "takers."
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #559

Post by onewithhim »

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

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Post by Falling Light 101 »

Every Christian can easily read the Bible.

I do not wish to offend anyone who is easily offended

but in friendliness and respect - this woud be a good response to someone who would ask / question that YAAHASHUA IS NOT YAAHAWHA

From the beginnings of detailing the description of the identity of YAAHAWHA

- Exo 15:3 YAAHAWHA is a man of war: YAAHAWHA is his name.

YAAHAWHA here - is a man who can MORPH and manifest himself - AS A MAN ON EARTH. - A man of war.

The same YAAHAWHA who appeared to Abraham - as a man.

in fact, is The Bible does in fact say that YAAHAWHA is a man - but in the Old Testament, what type of a man is YAAHAWHA ELOHEEM

Exo 15:3 YAAHAWHA is a man of war: YAAHAWHA is his name.

WHAT KIND OF A MAN IS YAAHAWHA - NOT

Num 23:19 YAAHAWHA is not a man, that he should lie; neither
the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

1Sa 15:29 And also the ELOHEEM of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.

SO HERE, YAAHAWHA - is not the same type of man that is a mortal, human and from earth. His Spirit, from above MORPHS and manifests into a man.

Is there a contradiction ? or does the Bible explain what many are leaving out and ignoring ? - . . YAAHAWHA is a man of war: YAAHAWHA is his name.

the YAAHAWHA is his name. = a man of war:

My only question I have would be to ask you WHO IS THE GOD in - ...... Acts 20:28........

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

What God used / shed his own blood to redeem his children. -

what bible are we all reading ? Where is the blood of the Spirit Of YAAHAWHA ? - - - answer = in YAAHASHUA who was in the MORPH of God

YAAHAWHA MORPHED UNTO HUMAN FLESH - as a son / servant

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