JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Re: Re:

Post #541

Post by onewithhim »

101G wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:13 pm
onewithhim wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:39 pm
101G wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:17 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #529]
then you have two creators, and two makers. which is none biblical, so do you wish to try again?

101G
No, I'm sorry you can't see what is being said. There is ONE Source of the power of creation---Jehovah, the Father. He GAVE His Son the ability and His approval to create. As I Corinthians 8:6 tells us---all things were made THROUGH Jesus. Jehovah did His creating by means of His Son, Jesus. So they both can be considered "creators," but only one is the Source of that creation ability.
First thanks for the replies, second, we must disagree with your assessment. and here's why. Isaiah 44:24 states, "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" well, he was alone, and by himself, so he didn't go through anyone.

I leave it to the good people passing through here to read both arguments, look up the Scriptures, and decide which point of view makes the most sense to them. I stand by what I said. (Jehovah said that He created by Himself because He is the Source of all power. There is no other Source of power.)

101G
Apprentice
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:58 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #542

Post by 101G »

GINOLJC, to all
Likewise, for I cannot change my position either, by violating scripture.

Jesus is an ordinal of himself, who as the Ordinal FIRST, created all things, per John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24.

and this ONE PERSON, is God, who is a Spirit, per John 4:24, who is the Person of God, as Hebrews 1:3 clearly states, "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

PICJAG,
101G

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #543

Post by onewithhim »

101G wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:43 am GINOLJC, to all
Likewise, for I cannot change my position either, by violating scripture.

Jesus is an ordinal of himself, who as the Ordinal FIRST, created all things, per John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24.

and this ONE PERSON, is God, who is a Spirit, per John 4:24, who is the Person of God, as Hebrews 1:3 clearly states, "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

PICJAG,
101G
You are violating Scripture. You present the Bible as contradicting itself, and it truly does not, when looking at ALL verses (and not leaving any out, which you have done).
John 1:3 says that "all things came into existence THROUGH him." This lines up with what I have been saying. The Father (God) is the Source of creating power, and Jesus Christ is the means by which God, Jehovah, creates.

Isaiah 44:24 simply stresses the fact that no one else beside Jehovah has the power that He does. There is no other god anywhere that can match Him in power. No other god can claim to have done what Jehovah has achieved by His power.

Please tell me....how can God (as you want us to believe--Jesus) sit down on his own right hand?

101G
Apprentice
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:58 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #544

Post by 101G »

onewithhim wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:19 pm
101G wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:43 am GINOLJC, to all
Likewise, for I cannot change my position either, by violating scripture.

Jesus is an ordinal of himself, who as the Ordinal FIRST, created all things, per John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24.

and this ONE PERSON, is God, who is a Spirit, per John 4:24, who is the Person of God, as Hebrews 1:3 clearly states, "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

PICJAG,
101G
You are violating Scripture. You present the Bible as contradicting itself, and it truly does not, when looking at ALL verses (and not leaving any out, which you have done).
John 1:3 says that "all things came into existence THROUGH him." This lines up with what I have been saying. The Father (God) is the Source of creating power, and Jesus Christ is the means by which God, Jehovah, creates.

Isaiah 44:24 simply stresses the fact that no one else beside Jehovah has the power that He does. There is no other god anywhere that can match Him in power. No other god can claim to have done what Jehovah has achieved by His power.

Please tell me....how can God (as you want us to believe--Jesus) sit down on his own right hand?
first thanks for the reply, second, the bible never say this, the bible is clear, the ONE PERSON, God didn't go through anyone, listen, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
ALONE means, having no one else present. so he didn't go through anyone, as a matter of Fact, allone eliminated any other person, or persons.

it is the LORD, all caps that "MADE ALL THINGS", now unless you are acknowledging the JESUS is the LORD who made all thing then that would be a correct assessment, just as John 1:3 states.

hope that helped.

PICJAG,
101G

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #545

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to 101G in post #545]
I wonder if this applies here: "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

I dare say that my explanation makes sense but you still insist that Jesus made everything with his own power. This idea even Jesus disputes.

"Jesus approached them saying: 'All authority has been GIVEN to me in heaven and on the earth.'" (Matthew 28:18)

Who GAVE Jesus his power and authority?


.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #546

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

[Replying to 101G in post #545]

John 1:3 states that all things were made through Christ, as does John 1:10. Just in case some would interpret that in a few different ways, Hebrews makes it clear:

But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2



God made the universe through His Son.


Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

101G
Apprentice
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:58 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #547

Post by 101G »

tam wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:46 pm Peace to you,

[Replying to 101G in post #545]

John 1:3 states that all things were made through Christ, as does John 1:10. Just in case some would interpret that in a few different ways, Hebrews makes it clear:

But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2



God made the universe through His Son.


Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Thanks for the reply, but the scriptures do not agree with that assessment, and here's why. if one person made "ALL THINGS" through another person, well Isaiah 44:24 states God who made all things was "Alone", and "By himself". that right there eliminates any going through anoyone else. because ALONE means, having no one else present. and two the Lord Jesus himself said this, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," so it was not Jesus the Son of god who went through anyone. so your statement, "God made the universe through His Son". and the "he" in Matthews 19:4 is God. for the gospel of Mark certify this, Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." the bible don't agree with. your statement

PICJAG,
101G.

101G
Apprentice
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:58 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #548

Post by 101G »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:34 pm [Replying to 101G in post #545]
I wonder if this applies here: "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

I dare say that my explanation makes sense but you still insist that Jesus made everything with his own power. This idea even Jesus disputes.

"Jesus approached them saying: 'All authority has been GIVEN to me in heaven and on the earth.'" (Matthew 28:18)

Who GAVE Jesus his power and authority?


.
Thanks, for the reply, this was after his resurrection, in GLORIFICATION, which he, he, he, laid down his life. and had authority and the power to restore it. understand, Jesus the Son of God is simply the BODY/the Son, on earth in flesh, and Jesus the Son of Man is simply, the HEAD/the Father, Spirit of God in heaven.

ps, it was Jesus himself who raised up his own Body, by his own power, see John 2:18-21.

PICJAG,
101
G.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #549

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
101G wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:09 pm
tam wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:46 pm Peace to you,

[Replying to 101G in post #545]

John 1:3 states that all things were made through Christ, as does John 1:10. Just in case some would interpret that in a few different ways, Hebrews makes it clear:

But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2



God made the universe through His Son.


Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Thanks for the reply, but the scriptures do not agree with that assessment, and here's why. if one person made "ALL THINGS" through another person, well Isaiah 44:24 states God who made all things was "Alone", and "By himself". that right there eliminates any going through anoyone else. because ALONE means, having no one else present. and two the Lord Jesus himself said this, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," so it was not Jesus the Son of god who went through anyone. so your statement, "God made the universe through His Son". and the "he" in Matthews 19:4 is God. for the gospel of Mark certify this, Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." the bible don't agree with. your statement

PICJAG,
101G.
It's not really my statement. It is the statement of the author of "John" and "Hebrews":

But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2

**

Isaiah 44 appears to be rebutting the idea of "idols" that people worshiped as if those idols were anything, as if those idols had anything to do with creation, or with stretching out the heavens. The Son of God, however, was present for these things (see Proverbs 8:22-28). As for Mark 10, yes, God made them male and female, but His Son was with Him when He did this. We can know that God was not alone when He did this, because He said, "Let us make man in our image." "Us" and "our" refers to God and to His Son.



Peace again to you!

101G
Apprentice
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:58 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

Post #550

Post by 101G »

tam wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:21 pm Peace to you,
101G wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:09 pm
tam wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:46 pm Peace to you,

[Replying to 101G in post #545]

John 1:3 states that all things were made through Christ, as does John 1:10. Just in case some would interpret that in a few different ways, Hebrews makes it clear:

But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2



God made the universe through His Son.


Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Thanks for the reply, but the scriptures do not agree with that assessment, and here's why. if one person made "ALL THINGS" through another person, well Isaiah 44:24 states God who made all things was "Alone", and "By himself". that right there eliminates any going through anoyone else. because ALONE means, having no one else present. and two the Lord Jesus himself said this, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," so it was not Jesus the Son of god who went through anyone. so your statement, "God made the universe through His Son". and the "he" in Matthews 19:4 is God. for the gospel of Mark certify this, Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." the bible don't agree with. your statement

PICJAG,
101G.
It's not really my statement. It is the statement of the author of "John" and "Hebrews":

But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2

**

Isaiah 44 appears to be rebutting the idea of "idols" that people worshiped as if those idols were anything, as if those idols had anything to do with creation, or with stretching out the heavens. The Son of God, however, was present for these things (see Proverbs 8:22-28). As for Mark 10, yes, God made them male and female, but His Son was with Him when He did this. We can know that God was not alone when He did this, because He said, "Let us make man in our image." "Us" and "our" refers to God and to His Son.



Peace again to you!
Thanks, for the reply, but that's the crust of the matter, the Lord Jesus is the Father the Ordinal First, (SPIRIT), who "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF", MADE ALL THINGS, but in Matthews 19:4 the son said "he" made them male and female. this is where the understanding of "Ordinal First and Last", come in at. the Son was was foreordain to come, (LAST).... listen, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
also as the apostle Peter by the Holy Spirit said, 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"
there was no blood before the foundation of the world, nor at it. so there was no son of God at Genesis 1:1 when "HE", God created ALL THINGS.

PICJAG, 101G.

Post Reply