Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

[polonius]

Jesus prophecized that the second coming would occur while some of his generation were still alive, but it didn't.

There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't. So, what's the claim now?

www.britannica.com/topic/Jehovahs-Witnesses

The Adventist movement emerged in the 1830s around the predictions of William Miller, who proclaimed that Jesus Christ would return in 1843 or 1844.

When Christ did not return as Miller prophecied, Adventists divided into a number of factions.

During the 1870s, Charles Taze Russell established himself as an independent and controversial Adventist teacher.

He rejected belief in hell as a place of eternal torment and adopted a non-Trinitarian theology that denied the divinity of Jesus. He also interpreted the Second Coming in accordance with the literal translation of the original Greek term, parousia (“presence�), suggesting that Christ would come as an invisible presence and that the Parousia, or “Millennial Dawn,� already had occurred, in 1874.

The coming of Christ’s invisible presence signaled the end of the current order of society and would be followed by his visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth in 1914.

Although the kingdom did not come, Russell’s teachings motivated a number of volunteers to circulate his many books and pamphlets and a periodical, The Watchtower, and to recalculate the time of the Parousia.

So when will Christ's visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth occur?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 29 by Checkpoint]

Yes of course, we are not Cathlics, infallibility of any human is not part of our belief system. Rutherford was right about some things but made some incorrect predictions, notable regarding the resurrection 1925. He was wrong, it happens.

Any mistakes we make now or in the future we'll try and learn from and move forward from. We dont believe God expects infallibility from his servants, only humility and sincereity.

[onewithhim]

Jesus prophecized that the second coming would occur while some of his generation were still alive, but it didn't.

There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't. So, what's the claim now?

No, Jesus did not prophesy that the second coming would occur in his generation. (See my post near the end of the thread "This generation will by no means pass away.")

His parousia will definitely occur during our lifetime.

In fact, we are living within it now. If a person wants to be on Jesus' good side , that

RESPONSE: This is not what Matthew and Luke state. See also Paul's Thessalonians I. The plain meaning of words.

God said THIS generation.(This generation is clearly the present generation unless specifically stated otherwise).

"This" generation could also mean the generation about which he was speaking, and he could have been speaking about ANY generation. He had been speaking about what would happen IN THE LAST DAYS when the Great Tribulation would strike. Therefore, the generation that he referred to would undoubtedly be a generation that would see the Great Tribulation begin.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 29 by Checkpoint]

Rutherford made some pretty grimace-causing mistakes, such as a letter he sent to Hitler making a very detrimental statement about the Jews. There is no defending that at all. Big error! Hopefully he got over that nonsense. You see, JWs don't swallow every little thing our leaders might say. We know when they are talking from their own thoughts, and if they are not thinking scripturally we can see that. Rutherford was scriptural on so many things that JWs knew he was preaching the truth. He just had some personal opinions that needed correcting. The 1925 thing, building a house for one of the ancients, etc., was just a hopeful guess on his part, as was 1975 a hopeful guess on the part of the organization then. I was baptized in 1975, and I know what was going on. We were never told that 1975 was definitely the year of the end of the system. I know that I thought, "hey if it is, that's great; if not, that's OK too."

[Checkpoint]

Jesus prophecized that the second coming would occur while some of his generation were still alive, but it didn't.

There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't. So, what's the claim now?

No, Jesus did not prophesy that the second coming would occur in his generation. (See my post near the end of the thread "This generation will by no means pass away.")

His parousia will definitely occur during our lifetime.

In fact, we are living within it now. If a person wants to be on Jesus' good side , that

RESPONSE: This is not what Matthew and Luke state. See also Paul's Thessalonians I. The plain meaning of words.

God said THIS generation.(This generation is clearly the present generation unless specifically stated otherwise). Use a good English dictionary.

It's the plain meaning of words. The JW's claim that Jesus has returned but is now invisible.

Yes, "the plain meaning of words".

Not, however, those of "a good English dictionary " of recent vintage, but those spoken by Jesus 2000 years ago. And those found in the Gospels that specify and define what a "generation" is.

Grace and peace.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 29 by Checkpoint]

Rutherford made some pretty grimace-causing mistakes, such as a letter he sent to Hitler making a very detrimental statement about the Jews. There is no defending that at all. Big error! Hopefully he got over that nonsense.

A real danger zone, one that Luther became infamous for.

You see, JWs don't swallow every little thing our leaders might say. We know when they are talking from their own thoughts, and if they are not thinking scripturally we can see that. Rutherford was scriptural on so many things that JWs knew he was preaching the truth.

I see what you are saying, but think there just might be some wishful thinking in there!

I've been there, done that. I remember how we used to major on how we had come to know "the truth".

He just had some personal opinions that needed correcting. The 1925 thin[g, building a house for one of the ancients, etc., was just a hopeful guess on his part

Maybe.

, as was 1975 a hopeful guess on the part of the organization then. I was baptized in 1975, and I know what was going on. We were never told that 1975 was definitely the year of the end of the system. I know that I thought, "hey if it is, that's great; if not, that's OK too."

Thanks for this interesting post of yours.

We chose 1975 too, but with the brazen certainty you had learned by then not to have again.

I didn't buy it then, and it helped me to open my eyes and taste the roses. I was gone years before the time had arrived.

This is classic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_C._Whisenant


Grace and peace to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 34 by Checkpoint]

The key is to be devoted to God not a date. I believe Jehovah allows such errors to weed out those that are not truly devoted to Him and loyal to His organisation. For me it's not important that I live to see Jehovahs day only that it comes and that his name be sanctified. I do believe we are in the home stretch but if not, will that mean I will have wasted my life? Not at all.

It has been a long hard fight to free ourselves from wrong teachings and attitudes but Ezekiel foretold an elevated temple that does reflect Jehovahs lofty standards for worship on earth as found practised by Jehovahs Witnesses. There is in my opinion no better place to be. Mistakes are the way we humans learn, as long as we learn and do better then that's fine with me.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 34 by Checkpoint]

Were you once a Witness?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 34 by Checkpoint]

The key is to be devoted to God not a date. I believe Jehovah allows such errors to weed out those that are not truly devoted to Him and loyal to His organisation. For me it's not important that I live to see Jehovahs day only that it comes and that his name be sanctified. I do believe we are in the home stretch but if not, will that mean I will have wasted my life? Not at all.

It has been a long hard fight to free ourselves from wrong teachings and attitudes but Ezekiel foretold an elevated temple that does reflect Jehovahs lofty standards for worship on earth as found practised by Jehovahs Witnesses. There is in my opinion no better place to be. Mistakes are the way we humans learn, as long as we learn and do better then that's fine with me.

Yes, I agree. If I don't see the end that's OK. We couldn't live a better life. Following Jehovah is the best way to live. We are happy, hopeful and protected.

Jehovah's organization has made some mistakes, and it has learned from them and has done better. I don't believe any other religious organization can say the same thing. It seems funny now, but the WT once thought that every Christian was going to heaven. Then they realized that a great crowd was going to live on the earth. The light just keeps getting brighter.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 34 by Checkpoint]

Were you once a Witness?

No.

Ever heard of Herbert W. Armstrong?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 34 by Checkpoint]

The key is to be devoted to God not a date. I believe Jehovah allows such errors to weed out those that are not truly devoted to Him and loyal to His organisation. For me it's not important that I live to see Jehovahs day only that it comes and that his name be sanctified. I do believe we are in the home stretch but if not, will that mean I will have wasted my life? Not at all.

Dates come and go; God comes and stays with every heart that welcomes Him.

Jesus ruled out date-setting.

It is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Our loyalty is to be to the Father and to His beloved Son, of whom He said, "Listen to him".

God has, not an organisation but an organism, the body of the anointed one who is its head.

It was an organisation that sought to kill that anointed one, and succeeded in doing so. They claimed authority and demanded loyalty.

Organisations do exist today that recognise Jesus as the anointed one, and thus claim authority and expect our loyalty; specifically, Catholic, Mormon, and WT.

Many of us are slow learners, it seems to me.

It has been a long hard fight to free ourselves from wrong teachings and attitudes but Ezekiel foretold an elevated temple that does reflect Jehovahs lofty standards for worship on earth as found practised by Jehovahs Witnesses. There is in my opinion no better place to be. Mistakes are the way we humans learn, as long as we learn and do better then that's fine with me.

It's fine with me too, that we do learn from our mistakes.

The problem is, though, we have to first recognise and accept that what we were or are doing was/is an actual mistake!

Grace and peace to you.