The Fate of Nonbelievers

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The Fate of Nonbelievers

Post #1

Post by myth-one.com »

Christians believe the Bible to be inspired by God. If so, true Christian theology will be found in the Bible. Likewise, theology which cannot be found in the Bible is not true Christian theology. Participants in this topic will debate the eternal fate of nonbelievers -- as written in the Bible! Nonbelievers will be defined as anyone who does not believe in Jesus -- regardless of their age, intelligence, or any other factor! One's input is valuable only if supported by the Bible. Whether or not one actually believes the Bible to be true is inconsequential! No preference will be given based on religious beliefs, faith, denominations, etc. We will attempt to jointly and finally agree as to what the Bible states believers will be saved from! It will be a learning experience, with no preaching or attempts at "saving" anyone. Hopefully we can save human lives and reduce irrational fears! I encourage all to participate!

As a starting point. This is what I claim the Holy Bible states as to the fate of nonbelievers: (Click on any item below for a full biblical defense of that claim.)
  1. The Bible defines two body types, natural and spiritual. God and the angels are spiritual bodied beings, while all other beings are physical. The main difference between the two types is longevity. Spiritual bodies are immortal, while natural bodies will perish. Also, pain is necessary for natural bodies to recognize when they're in harm's way. Spirits are indestructible, and thus need no pain.
  2. Two separate and distinct physical deaths may befall mankind, but only the first death is a certainty. Every human will die the first death.
  3. And every human who suffers their first death will be resurrected. Those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be resurrected to everlasting life.
  4. But there will be an order to the resurrections. Christ was resurrected first. All dead believers will be resurrected at the second Coming of Christ, and all nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming.
  5. All Christians living at the time of the Second Coming will be changed into spiritual beings and meet Christ in the air.
  6. At this time, there will be no living human Christians. All will have been born again of the Spirit as spiritual children of God. They will then spend the thousand year Millennium with Christ.
  7. Following the Millennium, all dead nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and face judgment. Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and instantly perish -- being human. This is their second and everlasting death. They have opted out of life for all eternity.
  8. But their names were not written into the Book of Life prior to their judgment! Everyone with their names written in the Book of Life were born again into the spiritual Kingdom of God at the Second Coming. The Book of Life was cleared at that time. So why check it again?
  9. The only possible reason is that nonbelievers will have the opportunity to accept salvation during the judgment process! The blank Book of Life is reopened at the beginning of judgment so that names may be written into it. The names written into it will be names of nonbeliever who repent and accept Jesus as their Savior during their judgment.
Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Consequences: No humans will suffer eternally in the lake of fire. Distraught parents who murder their children in their innocent years in an effort to send them to heaven as they have been taught -- have been deceived! Likewise, the millions of deceived Christians who constantly worry about their unsaved family and loved ones being eternally tortured in the fires of hell can now chill out.

Click here to view the current "Fate of Nonbelievers" and supporting biblical evidence as resolved by debaters under this thread.

I will modify attachments linked to from this post as we debate the issue and find corrections or improvements! Hopefully, we will be led to a good result!

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Post #171

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 164 by myth-one.com]

Jesus wasn't immortal until AFTER his death and resurrection.

You do not take the scriptures seriously, do you?
Jesus Christ came down from heaven to the earth as the Word (a spirit) made flesh (Jesus).

After Jesus died and was resurrected, He ascended up to heaven:
John 3:13 wrote:And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Is the man Jesus Christ now in Heaven?

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Post #172

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onewithhim wrote:Yes, spirits CAN be destroyed, . . .
God is a spirit:
John 4:24 wrote:God is a Spirit:
Should Christians be concerned that their God can be destroyed?

If God can be destroyed, what hope do any of us have? #-o

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Post #173

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 162 by myth-one.com]

Yes, spirits CAN be destroyed, and that is what the lake of fire SYMBOLIZES. The Devil is thrown there, symbolically. It is obviously symbolic because "death and Hades" are thrown there as well. Death, Hades, and the Devil are all done away with, completely. Nothing and no one is tortured, literally, forever. They are just gone.


Why do you keep saying that spirits can't be destroyed? Because you think they were created immortal? Where does the Bible say that, pray tell?
God is a spirit:
John 4:24 wrote:God is a Spirit:
So God can be destroyed.
What???? God is the Source of everything that exists. He cannot be destroyed. Anything outside of Himself CAN be destroyed.

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Post #174

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 164 by myth-one.com]

Jesus wasn't immortal until AFTER his death and resurrection.

You do not take the scriptures seriously, do you?
Jesus Christ came down from heaven to the earth as the Word (a spirit) made flesh (Jesus).

After Jesus died and was resurrected, He ascended up to heaven:
John 3:13 wrote:And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Is the man Jesus Christ now in Heaven?
No. The spirit being that is Jesus is now in heaven. He was "put to death in the flesh and then made alive as a spirit." (I Peter 3:18) He was not resurrected as a fleshly man. He had given up his human life. If he took back his body of flesh, he would have taken back his sacrifice & we would still be in our sins.

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Post #175

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote:
onewithhim wrote:Yes, spirits CAN be destroyed, . . .
God is a spirit:
John 4:24 wrote:God is a Spirit:
Should Christians be concerned that their God can be destroyed?

If God can be destroyed, what hope do any of us have? #-o
You are playing games. You also have a surface understanding of everything. You are trying to trip people up just exactly like the Pharisees tried to trip up Jesus.

Just because the spirits that God creates can be destroyed doesn't mean that HE can be destroyed.


:facepalm:

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Post #176

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
onewithhim wrote:Yes, spirits CAN be destroyed, . . .
God is a spirit:
John 4:24 wrote:God is a Spirit:
Should Christians be concerned that their God can be destroyed?

If God can be destroyed, what hope do any of us have? #-o
You are playing games. You also have a surface understanding of everything. You are trying to trip people up just exactly like the Pharisees tried to trip up Jesus.

Just because the spirits that God creates can be destroyed doesn't mean that HE can be destroyed.
:facepalm:
You claimed that spirits can be destroyed.

The scriptures state that God is a spirit.

Can God be destroyed, or are there different grades of spirits?

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Post #177

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to post 173 by myth-one.com]

God cannot be destroyed. I guess you could say that there are different grades of spirits. :roll:

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Post #178

Post by myth-one.com »

myth-one.com wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 164 by myth-one.com]

Jesus wasn't immortal until AFTER his death and resurrection.

You do not take the scriptures seriously, do you?
Jesus Christ came down from heaven to the earth as the Word (a spirit) made flesh (Jesus).

After Jesus died and was resurrected, He ascended up to heaven:
John 3:13 wrote:And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Is the man Jesus Christ now in Heaven?
onewithhim wrote:No. The spirit being that is Jesus is now in heaven.
"Jesus" is back in Heaven as the Word. Yes, the Word is a Spirit.
onewithhim wrote:He was "put to death in the flesh and then made alive as a spirit." (I Peter 3:18) He was not resurrected as a fleshly man.
Wrong.

Jesus Christ confirmed that He was resurrected as a flesh and bone human:
But they were terrified and affrightened, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 24:37-39)
I'll have to side with Jesus on this issue.

Not only does this confirm that Jesus was resurrected as a man, it also negates the myth that mankind is a "spirit."

Jesus states that "a spirit hath not flesh and bones."

Man has flesh and bones, thus man has no spiritual body. That is what we are missing. Thus we must be born again of the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God. It's so simple.
onewithhim wrote:He had given up his human life. If he took back his body of flesh, he would have taken back his sacrifice & we would still be in our sins.
Once He died on the cross without having sinned, salvation was secured for "whosoever believeth in Him."

His first death was appointed and saved no one.

Neither would a second, third, fourth ... etc!

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Post #179

Post by onewithhim »

I'm done carrying on a meaningless discussion. Never the twain shall meet, I guess. Fare thee well.

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Post #180

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 173 by myth-one.com]

God cannot be destroyed. I guess you could say that there are different grades of spirits. :roll:
OK.

I guess that means that God is back to being immortal. That's good news! :D

So now, I guess you're claiming:

"Some spirits can be destroyed."

If that is correct, then are spirits derived from humans in a grade that can be destroyed by God?

Thanks in advance.

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